Is Disc Golf Growing?

[erock216]

Thanks for answering, even though it was to only half of my questions.

Examples please.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=5640&p=8ee39403

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=2446&p=6b821cb5

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=797&p=60cef1af

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=5513&p=8d2f8bd0

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=155&p=d79b4b2e

I could go on and on.

 

[Jay Dub]

Maybe it's a Chicago thing.
Having unsafe courses is not good and, well, unsafe. But the fact they are in the ground shows growth for the sport. People who know nothing about courses are installing them, how can that not be growth?

 

[rocthecourse]

A course is not just a course, it can be beneficial or detrimental to a community. Putting a course in, where it shouldn't belong, does not make it a positive. Continuing to put in "free" DG courses does not mean that the "sport" is growing, it just means that more courses are being put in (never mind the ones that get pulled).

Growth comes from youth, youth come from school programs and colleges. Inspire the youth, grow the game.

More private courses means that there is more revenue to be had, which means a healthy economic stream. I'd much rather play at a prime DG course than a public dog park. Just my .02.

I agree some courses are bad and should have never been built.

But in general growth of the sport can be good for public "free" courses. My home course started out as a 2000' 9 hole course. 7 years ago you could play on a Saturday for hours without seeing anyone, before the disc golf the park was hardly used at all. A few years later there were people playing every day. This got the park to add a very good 18 hole course(4 star rated.) The course is packed on the weekend. The 9 hole even got a redesign to make it better. Now 2 years later the parks department has started work on another 18 hole course 2 miles down the road, it promises to be an even better course since the land is better.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3889
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=5899

 

[mndiscg]

Sure. That's what this forum is for: Ranting and raving about stuff from the seclusion of our homes. Lots of trolling by people using fake names and profiles. Or did your parents really name you "mndiscg?" I apologize if that's the case. The way it works is: I weighed in on the issue - touchy as it is, and then you write in and tell me your opinion, or just criticize mine. I get it, you didn't dig it. Then I give you my retort and it goes on and on... Mindless ramble. Whether you want to hear it or not is irrelevant; It's a forum for spouting off. Get used to it.

Also, Do you realize that you said you don't care about the development of the DISC GOLF media super-structure like radio shows and blogs, on a entity created and dedicated to very promotion of the sport? Ironic, no? Why don't you call the phone company and tell them how much you hate phones?

To David: If all these new courses are so good, why has the Top Ten list stayed almost the same for the past five years? Flip City is okay, but Jarva is far superior. There are courses in Finland which make Blue Ribbon look foolish.

Perhaps they should reset the voting to see what happens. They could do it once a year to see a valid, up-to-date Top Ten.

This is all subjective. Even the way we define "Growth." Whether it's a literal definition of numbers, or if it's the figurative definition of growth of a sport.

You can find my real name on my profile... Not that it really matters what my real name is since you don't know me anyways.

I understand the implications of what I said and I stand by them. Your phone reference went over my head though.

If these Finnish courses are so great, you should review them. A simple search on this site shows that most of the Finnish courses are unrated and many others have very few ratings. Spread the word to your Finnish friends and offer to translate reviews for them if they don't speak good English.

 

[JC17393]

Maybe it's a Chicago thing.
Having unsafe courses is not good and, well, unsafe. But the fact they are in the ground shows growth for the sport. People who know nothing about courses are installing them, how can that not be growth?

I think this thread demonstrates that while any growth is growth, there's good growth and bad growth and everyone's got an opinion of what falls into which category.

People who know nothing about courses taking the effort to install them is a sign of growth, but those courses aren't necessarily the kind of growth that is going to help the sport. A friend of mine who has installed and designed his share of courses once told me that a bad course is bad for the game and I can't say I disagree. Whether it's bad for safety reasons or plain bad/poor design, bad courses can put off as many people as they turn on to the game.

 

[Jay Dub]

I think this thread demonstrates that while any growth is growth, there's good growth and bad growth and everyone's got an opinion of what falls into which category.

People who know nothing about courses taking the effort to install them is a sign of growth, but those courses aren't necessarily the kind of growth that is going to help the sport. A friend of mine who has installed and designed his share of courses once told me that a bad course is bad for the game and I can't say I disagree. Whether it's bad for safety reasons or plain bad/poor design, bad courses can put off as many people as they turn on to the game.

Winton Woods is the worst course we have as far as ease and design. very basic and very easy. It's always the most crowded course in the area.
At the same time if you want to play Idlewild, there will be no waiting or back ups.

 

[rocthecourse]

Winton Woods is the worst course we have as far as ease and design. very basic and very easy. It's always the most crowded course in the area.
At the same time if you want to play Idlewild, there will be no waiting or back ups.

Families and chuckers like easy courses. I mentioned my home course earlier, but an interesting thing is that the park has essential 3 nine hole loops the easier 9 hole loop gets the most play. The hard 9 gets the least, and when the pins are long even less play.

A great way to keep chuckers off your good course is too make a fun and easy 9 hole course right next to it(every hole well under 300 feet and a few under 150.) If you can push a stroller around even better.

Eventually some of those chuckers will become disc golfers.

 

[JC17393]

Winton Woods is the worst course we have as far as ease and design. very basic and very easy. It's always the most crowded course in the area.
At the same time if you want to play Idlewild, there will be no waiting or back ups.

Let me be clear. Simple, basic and easy does not equate to bad design. Courses for which technology has passed it by (Winton being a great example of that...it was designed for frisbees, not golf discs) are not necessarily bad designs. Bad design is a hole that make no sense, such as narrow paths through the woods that turn in ways discs in flight physically can't accomplish no matter how skilled the thrower.

If the best players can't find a way to play a hole, no way will it give new players a good enough first impression that they're likely to stick with it.

 

[steadyrockabilly]

Dispeling a few myths about Finnish disc golf (and perhaps European dg if it's even relevant as an entity) :

-There are no spectators at events. There might have been some once but that was the exception ..The only spectators are other players and occasional dog walkers.

-European players are not more "professional" than American ones. People that play this game here are nerds, stoners/slackers or average joes that are too banged up or antisocial to play team sports.

I played in a tourney called "420 cup" on Sunday in a public park. If you could have seen the players "professionals" wouldn't be the first thing on yourt mind and if you would have heard the disgruntled pedestrians at this park you wouldn't have mistaken them for spectators.

 

[mndiscg]

Dispeling a few myths about Finnish disc golf (and perhaps European dg if it's even relevant as an entity) :

-There are no spectators at events. There might have been some once but that was the exception ..The only spectators are other players and occasional dog walkers.

-European players are not more "professional" than American ones. People that play this game here are nerds, stoners/slackers or average joes that are too banged up or antisocial to play team sports.

I played in a tourney called "420 cup" on Sunday in a public park. If you could have seen the players "professionals" wouldn't be the first thing on yourt mind and if you would have heard the disgruntled pedestrians at this park you wouldn't have mistaken them for spectators.

So you're saying it's pretty much the same as it is on the other side of the ocean?

 

[steadyrockabilly]

So you're saying it's pretty much the same as it is on the other side of the ocean?

Haven't played at your side of the pond, but based on heresay and chatter online I would guess so.

As for why Feldberg and whoever else promote these views- I don't know that either! I suppose it's because it's a way to promote a "better" version of the sport by claiming it already exists somewhere else. It might also be because Felberg et co. have a fairly limited experience of the game in Europe outside of the biggest tourneys.

The part about disc golf not having a stigma as a hippie sport over here I can confirm however. I think most people see it simply as a more casual form of golf.

 

[mashnut]

A course is not just a course, it can be beneficial or detrimental to a community. Putting a course in, where it shouldn't belong, does not make it a positive. Continuing to put in "free" DG courses does not mean that the "sport" is growing, it just means that more courses are being put in (never mind the ones that get pulled).

Growth comes from youth, youth come from school programs and colleges. Inspire the youth, grow the game.

More private courses means that there is more revenue to be had, which means a healthy economic stream. I'd much rather play at a prime DG course than a public dog park. Just my .02.

The question was about whether disc golf is growing, not whether it's growing in the way WhiteyBear would like to see it grow. More courses and more players on those courses is growth, that's sort of the definition of the word. It's a separate discussion on how poorly defined courses affect the image and direction of disc golf (and trust me, I'm a very vocal critic of poor course design and the problems it causes).

 

[cjsleme]

I know I was ridiculed but I don't regret making this thread now, these are some interesting and informative information/opinions/outlooks.

 

[SamuliKL]

Dispeling a few myths about Finnish disc golf (and perhaps European dg if it's even relevant as an entity) :

I played in a tourney called "420 cup" on Sunday in a public park. If you could have seen the players "professionals" wouldn't be the first thing on yourt mind and if you would have heard the disgruntled pedestrians at this park you wouldn't have mistaken them for spectators.

You did? Funny, I checked all the biggest Finnish DG site and I couldn't find anything about something called a "420 cup". On Sunday 20th April there was Kaatiksen mämmikoura, Tammisaaren B-rata viikkokisat 2014, Vuorelan Veikkojen Pääsiäiskisat su 20.4, Viikkorahakisat Meikussa. These were all unsanctioned, small local "tournaments" and then there was of course three day PDGA sanctioned Easter Open Viidentienristeys with 172 players. Which of these were you referring to as "420 cup"? I'm just asking because we wouldn't want to think you are just making stuff up.

 

[steadyrockabilly]

You did? Funny, I checked all the biggest Finnish DG site and I couldn't find anything about something called a "420 cup". On Sunday 20th April there was Kaatiksen mämmikoura, Tammisaaren B-rata viikkokisat 2014, Vuorelan Veikkojen Pääsiäiskisat su 20.4, Viikkorahakisat Meikussa. These were all unsanctioned, small local "tournaments" and then there was of course three day PDGA sanctioned Easter Open Viidentienristeys with 172 players. Which of these were you referring to as "420 cup"? I'm just asking because we wouldn't want to think you are just making stuff up.

well if you didn't know about it you didn't need to know

 

[SamuliKL]

well if you didn't know about it you didn't need to know

So I take it that it was apparently you and your buddies who celebrated 420 and played disc golf, and from that you draw the conclusion that all of the Finnish disc golf scene is like your playing. Valid, except not.

 

[Puckstopper]

I can't recall the last time I played or saw a course I thought was not safe.

Maybe it's a Chicago thing.
Having unsafe courses is not good and, well, unsafe. But the fact they are in the ground shows growth for the sport. People who know nothing about courses are installing them, how can that not be growth?

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=581

I only played Johnny Roberts DGC in Denver in the middle of the day, on a weekday. It is an old-school Denver favorite from what the guys at Phenix Disc Sports told me, and it got pulled. Why? Because even in the middle of a weekday there was way too much other traffic for this really fun little course to be considered safe. According to your profile you live down by Cincy. I played a couple courses there back in the day and would agree that none of them felt unsafe in any way. I would say the same about all but one of the courses in Columbus, Toledo, and Mid-Michigan that I've played. But the fact remains that when you travel outside the Mid-West/Great Lakes region things are different. Population density is higher, and there isn't as much open land to use exclusively for disc golf, so more parks tend to be mixed use. This in turn can lead to dangerous situations or courses that would be "bad" for the sport. Remember, if you're annoyed with waiting on someone to clear your path, they're probably equally annoyed with you for rushing them along. As they continue to be annoyed by disc golfers we run the risk of them actively badmouthing the sport and/or turning on it the way some of the eco-nazis out in California have. You've been given multiple examples of bad course design, and I'm not sure why you continue to argue the point.

Now, as far as disc golf growing goes, WHOGAS? It's plenty big right now. We've got a ton of options for equipment, and enough courses in the ground that we don't have to worry about not finding a place to play in most parts of the country. Growth will only lead to to more chuckers on the courses we have. I seriously doubt that course installation will keep up with demand if we hit a growth spurt.

 

[steadyrockabilly]

So I take it that it was apparently you and your buddies who celebrated 420 and played disc golf, and from that you draw the conclusion that all of the Finnish disc golf scene is like your playing. Valid, except not.

No, I brought the tourney up to illustrate a point, not because I wanted to make some random internet detective aware of it's existence. I regrett bringing it up now. Regardless, you seem unaware of the fact that there are many different kinds of sanctioned and unsanctioned tourneys going on and No, this wasn't me and my friends playing. I've played many types of sanctioned and unsanctioned events during the last 10-15 years and besides the absolutely biggest tourneys the atmosphere is always pretty relaxed. Which is a good thing.

 

[SamuliKL]

No, I brought the tourney up to illustrate a point, not because I wanted to make some random internet detective aware of it's existence. I regrett bringing it up now. Regardless, you seem unaware of the fact that there are many different kinds of sanctioned and unsanctioned tourneys going on and No, this wasn't me and my friends playing. I've played many types of sanctioned and unsanctioned events during the last 10-15 years and besides the absolutely biggest tourneys the atmosphere is always pretty relaxed. Which is a good thing.

I've played, too. I like relaxed as well. But your point and "evidence" about players being nerdy, banged up, antisocial stoners is ridiculous. I am not doubting that you see it in your circles but your generalization is false and ignorant. Which is a good thing.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

This is just my opinion of course, but the growth that the sport needs is in a bigger cross-section of the population playing, especially, a larger representation of people who don't "need" to win the ace pot so that they can pay gas to get back after the tournament, don't have to carpool in order to be able to afford to get to tournaments, can afford to pay more for better equipment, are familiar enough with winning, losing and competition that they wouldn't dream of cheating and most importantly, don't mind paying a fee to play that allows well-designed, private courses to be profitable. That would be a very good type of growth IMO. More public, free courses are also good, but getting a little more money into the sport via more players with more disposable income will do wonders.