Is it legal to practice throw something other than a disc?

[seedlings]

There is a Reddit thread about someone practice putting with a water bottle in a tournament. This leads me to ask if it's legal practice putt/throw something other than a disc.

 

[seedlings]

802.01A "A throw is the propulsion and release of a disc in order to change its position."

A practice "throw" should also use the same definition.. and mean a disc.

I am wondering if it is a loophole, or if people will start bringing non-discs to practice with.

 

[Art Stryker]

802.01A "A throw is the propulsion and release of a disc in order to change its position."

A practice "throw" should also use the same definition.. and mean a disc.

I am wondering if it is a loophole, or if people will start bringing non-discs to practice with.

I should bring a bowling ball and practice my straddle putts.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Now that you are allowed to "pa'diddle" and throw the disc up to yourself and catch it over and over, that seems like it would be much more effective and legal way of practice putting and making sure you are getting the finger pop needed for a goodputt.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

If you think about it from the standpoint of enforcement, how would you determine which throws of non-discs were practice and which were not? Anyway, as a practical matter, you have answered your own question by citing the definition of a throw. If a "throw" is the "propulsion and release of a disc," then a practice throw is requires that a disc be thrown. No disc, no throw.

 

[dmoore1998]

Anything that isn't a disc should be fine.

I think the more interesting question is "what's a disc?" by the PDGA rules definition. Is it an "approved" disc? Can I practice with an unapproved disc? Is a mini a "disc"?

 

[ru4por]

Playing golf for a round with someone throwing random objects about the course, would likely become tedious and annoying.

 

[chevis]

maybe a courtesy violation

 

[Keokuk Discer]

I believe thriving anything would violate 802.A.3.c

 

[BillFleming]

I believe thriving anything would violate 802.A.3.c

I think you meant 812.A.3.c.

3. Engage in distracting or unsportsmanlike actions such as:

1. Shouting (unless warning someone at risk of being struck by a disc),
2. Cursing,
3. Striking, kicking, or throwing park, course, or player equipment,

 

[DavidSauls]

It might depend on whether that throw can be deemed a distraction, to someone in your group or another group.

Also, noting that we sometimes throw things to dislodge a disc stuck in a tree, without penalty.

I'm not sure how much throwing something with a different grip and weight than a disc, constitutes an advantage, anyway.

 

[dmoore1998]

It might depend on whether that throw can be deemed a distraction, to someone in your group or another group.

Also, noting that we sometimes throw things to dislodge a disc stuck in a tree, without penalty.

I'm not sure how much throwing something with a different grip and weight than a disc, constitutes an advantage, anyway.

I don't think it's much advantage...but that's also why I think what constitutes a "disc" is important. Throwing something that's not an approved PDGA disc might be helpful (might be EXTREMELY helpful if you take it out to absurd hypotheticals).

Like I can't see throwing a water bottle being very helpful. I can see throwing something similar to a disc but not considered a disc (again, depending upon how the PDGA defines that) helping someone.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've been playing almost 30 years, and have never seen or heard of people throwing non-disc objects being a major problem.

Whereas, if there weren't a rule again practice throws with actual discs, I can pretty well imagine the mess we'd have.

 

[araytx]

Reddit..? Humph!

 

[ChrisWoj]

So... hypothetical... what blocks the following...

I bring an 175g object that has a similar mass distribution to a disc. Prior to every putt I take a practice stroke tossing it a few feet off to the side of the basket. I then shuffle my feet briefly to line up with the chains, go through my routine and take my actual putt. All of this within the 30 seconds of course.

This question is actually very interesting to me right now for a tangential reason.

I have a friend, a strong Adv player named Nolan who says he wants to be a top pro player. I've been playing him cash rounds (and losing most of the time, sad to say) to help him get more competitive golf into his weeks. He, in an almost Pavlovian fashion, responds to every missed putt by taking a practice putt. I jokingly call him out for cheating, and point out to him that he hasn't yet beat me in a round where he hasn't cheated. Legitimately I've mostly thrown the rounds away in the first few holes before getting rolling, so it is mostly said in jest and sour grapes.

But the thing is - he insists that it isn't cheating or an advantage to be taking practice strokes when I'm not taking any. I still haven't drug out of him why he thinks it'd be against the rules if it wasn't cheating. But, yeah, seriously? How can you not think that tossing a practice shot would be an advantage if the other player isn't?

 

[BillFleming]

So... hypothetical... what blocks the following...

I bring an 175g object that has a similar mass distribution to a disc. Prior to every putt I take a practice stroke tossing it a few feet off to the side of the basket. I then shuffle my feet briefly to line up with the chains, go through my routine and take my actual putt. All of this within the 30 seconds of course.

This question is actually very interesting to me right now for a tangential reason.

I have a friend, a strong Adv player named Nolan who says he wants to be a top pro player. I've been playing him cash rounds (and losing most of the time, sad to say) to help him get more competitive golf into his weeks. He, in an almost Pavlovian fashion, responds to every missed putt by taking a practice putt. I jokingly call him out for cheating, and point out to him that he hasn't yet beat me in a round where he hasn't cheated. Legitimately I've mostly thrown the rounds away in the first few holes before getting rolling, so it is mostly said in jest and sour grapes.

But the thing is - he insists that it isn't cheating or an advantage to be taking practice strokes when I'm not taking any. I still haven't drug out of him why he thinks it'd be against the rules if it wasn't cheating. But, yeah, seriously? How can you not think that tossing a practice shot would be an advantage if the other player isn't?

Give him a penalty stroke for each practice putt. and then DQ him for continuing to violate the rule. (3.03.C.1 is about cheating to circumvent the rules)

1. A practice throw is any throw that is not made as a competitive attempt to change the lie, except for a throw that is made either to set aside an unused disc or to return a disc to a player and that travels less than five meters in the air. A drop is not a practice throw.
2. A player receives one penalty throw for making a practice throw; the throw itself is disregarded and not counted.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Give him a penalty stroke for each practice putt. and then DQ him for continuing to violate the rule. (3.03.C.1 is about cheating to circumvent the rules)

I was asking my question based on the quibbling above over what constitutes a "throw" by the definition of the rulebook.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

So... hypothetical... what blocks the following...

I bring an 175g object that has a similar mass distribution to a disc. Prior to every putt I take a practice stroke tossing it a few feet off to the side of the basket. I then shuffle my feet briefly to line up with the chains, go through my routine and take my actual putt. All of this within the 30 seconds of course.

I cannot answer this question, but if I played with you, you would do that in the last round I ever played with you.

This question is actually very interesting to me right now for a tangential reason.


I have a friend, a strong Adv player named Nolan who says he wants to be a top pro player. I've been playing him cash rounds (and losing most of the time, sad to say) to help him get more competitive golf into his weeks. He, in an almost Pavlovian fashion, responds to every missed putt by taking a practice putt. I jokingly call him out for cheating, and point out to him that he hasn't yet beat me in a round where he hasn't cheated. Legitimately I've mostly thrown the rounds away in the first few holes before getting rolling, so it is mostly said in jest and sour grapes.

But the thing is - he insists that it isn't cheating or an advantage to be taking practice strokes when I'm not taking any. I still haven't drug out of him why he thinks it'd be against the rules if it wasn't cheating. But, yeah, seriously? How can you not think that tossing a practice shot would be an advantage if the other player isn't?

I think you are getting into the wrong argument with him. Next time you have a long putt, especially if the score is close, just pick up your putter, walk up to the basket and drop it in. If he complains, tell him you are taking a gimme because you obviously would have made it. If he still complains just tell him that if he doesn't have to follow the rules, you don't either. OR you could just assess his penalty throw and show him the rule that REQUIRES the penalty 809.03(B).

Getting into an argument about whether it is or is not "cheating," or an "advantage" is silly. It is a practice throw. Practice throws add one penalty throw to the player who does the practice throw. That is the rule. The only response to any complaint of his should be, I can show you the rule if you want me to, and then show him the rule.

This reminds me of a story in Harvey Penick's Little Red Book, paraphrased somewhere else as follows: "Upon two parents coming over the Mr. Penick saying that they're son had just made his first birdie. He congratulated them, and asked how long was the birdie putt? They said that it was a gimme. He then told the parents that their son had yet to make his first birdie. The junior never sunk the birdie, but he also has it in his mind that he could pick up his ball from two feet and pronounce that he made the putt, without facing the truth." In this story, you have a DNF that a parent wanted to brag about. You have told us a story about letting a competitor take your money without using his actual score to do so.

Lots of people don't follow the rules and then claim whatever score they are happy about. Don't let your competitor do this. It is your job to follow and enforce the rules.

 

[DavidSauls]

I have a friend, a strong Adv player named Nolan who says he wants to be a top pro player. I've been playing him cash rounds (and losing most of the time, sad to say) to help him get more competitive golf into his weeks. He, in an almost Pavlovian fashion, responds to every missed putt by taking a practice putt. I jokingly call him out for cheating, and point out to him that he hasn't yet beat me in a round where he hasn't cheated. Legitimately I've mostly thrown the rounds away in the first few holes before getting rolling, so it is mostly said in jest and sour grapes.

But the thing is - he insists that it isn't cheating or an advantage to be taking practice strokes when I'm not taking any. I still haven't drug out of him why he thinks it'd be against the rules if it wasn't cheating. But, yeah, seriously? How can you not think that tossing a practice shot would be an advantage if the other player isn't?

I'm not quite sure I'd categorize it as cheating. I'm not convinced it's much of an advantage -- that he's making more putts afterwards, because he got a few extra practice putts in.

I believe the rule exists as a matter of order, in tournaments, rather than a matter of fair competition.

I play a lot of casual competitions where someone might throw a "revenge putt", or a 2nd drive to test a disc. Those would be violations in a tournament, and I'd call them if someone tried. But among ourselves, we count the score and win on the first shots.

Which isn't to say I wouldn't try to claim it, in jest and sour grapes, too. I once claimed a brother "cheated" in a round in which he beat me by about 17 strokes, because of a questionable O.B. ruling.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm not quite sure I'd categorize it as cheating. I'm not convinced it's much of an advantage -- that he's making more putts afterwards, because he got a few extra practice putts in.

I believe the rule exists as a matter of order, in tournaments, rather than a matter of fair competition.

I play a lot of casual competitions where someone might throw a "revenge putt", or a 2nd drive to test a disc. Those would be violations in a tournament, and I'd call them if someone tried. But among ourselves, we count the score and win on the first shots.

Which isn't to say I wouldn't try to claim it, in jest and sour grapes, too. I once claimed a brother "cheated" in a round in which he beat me by about 17 strokes, because of a questionable O.B. ruling.

I disagree - I think of it as a huge advantage. That extra bit of opportunity to get a feel for the heft of your disc or recognize that you weren't loading up for your weight shift makes all the difference in the world when you're having a potentially poor putting round, heading that off at the pass. Any time you take that extra throw you're getting a free opportunity to self-diagnose and correct that has zero consequences.