Is putting too easy? too hard? Just right?

[DavidSauls]

So if we are talking about the pro game and people wanting to watch it, won't smaller baskets actually hurt that? I mean the most viewed disc golf videos seem to be big aces/ drives going in. Won't have smaller baskets reduce the likelihood of such things?

Plus doesn't more score separation decrease excitement cause if they score is close the last few holes have more drama and excitement plus the possibility of a playoff?

Good points.

Not to speak for the smaller-basket advocates, but I think they're talking in terms of watching an entire event, and not just highlights. From that perspective, fewer long shots going in would be offset by fewer boring 20' putts. They might also point out that smaller baskets wouldn't eliminate long shots going in, just reduce them, and the rarity might make them even more special.

As to score separation, my guess is that it would have a minimal effect between, say, the top 5 players, but just increase the gap between them and the middle of the pack.

 

[ch241232]

my opinion for the too easy people. it's too easy until you miss one. lol

 

[araytx]

My problem with your poll is the assumptions therein. I think putting for top MPO pros is too easy, and therefore would like something to change about the baskets or the process, without making baskets themselves smaller. Personally, I'd advocate for some type of metal or hard plastic attachment to cover (restrict) about 1/3 of the target between the top of the cage and the top rim. In this way approach shots would become more of a premium. Now the confidence "circle" becomes a confidence "2/3 of a pie" meaning putts on the edge of the pie might have to be curved in, and putts on the dark side are pretty much a no go.

We don't have anything in our sport to mirror the judgment and skill of managing the curvature of the putting green in ball golf, and seeing top pros learning how to and hitting hyzer and anhyzer putts would be much more exciting to me as a spectator!

fyi, I didn't choose because there was no option for "other."

 

[DavidSauls]

The danger of a restricting device creating a dark side where putts are a no go, is that any discs on that side---even pretty close to the basket---result in a very short lay-up to the "right" side, then a drop-in. Not fun, to play or watch. Furthermore, it means such danger for missed putts landing on the dark side that it will diminish runs at the basket from the good side. More layups.

If you wanted to go this route, I suspect a single bar, stretching from top to bottom, would be enough to created a preferred side of the basket and force more difficult putts, without making them impossible from any point.

Though, frankly, on wooded courses you can accomplish the same thing on a tree-filled green, where different putts are required to weave in different flight paths, and force players into a variety of stances. You just have to make sure that no spot is so tree-filled as to force a layup, and should have a relatively open side of the basket to be the preferred landing area.

 

[TheOtherBill]

The request for peer-reviewed study in the below thread got me thinking about this poll from a few years back. McBeth said the same thing in 2015/2016 that Simon just did that's causing such a ruckus.

The Past, Present, and Future of PDGA Technical Standards

The slides for my closing keynote speech at the 2023 Flying Disc Museum's Disc Collector's Conference, Masters Worlds, Flagstaff, are available for download here. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372853321_The_Past_Present_and_Future_of_PDGA_Technical_Standards

www.dgcoursereview.com

So whacha think now? TBH if I can putt at 80% success from 20+ feet (and I do) then it's got to be easy. I'm bad at everything else, except scoobies, so putting must be too easy.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

I think we have a basket for 30 cm discs nobody even makes, and a bunch of 21 cm putters

 

[ChrisinFL]

Maybe I am just an "opposed to change" person, but I like it the way it is. I want to be shooting at the same baskets as the pros, and I want to be able to shoot par (at least on easy courses). I am just fine with 20' being automatic for pros. Smaller baskets could be self defeating - if you make the sport harder, fewer people may play, and most people that watch, probably play (or at least used to play)? Also, I don't think the putting deters viewers - much like ball golf, the pros still par or birdie most holes. Not sure what the answer is for getting more viewers - I know for me, I would watch more if it was available on TV for me to watch - I am limited to Utube, and I watch some there, but I would be much more inclined to watch if it was on regular TV/cable. I am still old school - I have Utube on my tablet, and not on my big screen TV - maybe one day I will advance that, but probably not this day - you know, not big on change - lol.

 

[DavidSauls]

This topic bubbles up about every 18 months.

The trade-offs for making 20' putts harder, is that (1) it makes longer putts harder, too, so fewer exciting 50-footers go in and (2) the risk of missing comebacks increases, so fewer exciting 50-footers are attempted and there are more layups from long-putting distances.

Is that a worthwhile trade-off, to make the 20-footers more suspenseful?

C1 doesn't exist in a vacuum. Changes in C1 affect C2 and long runs outside C2 and ace runs. Something to keep in mind.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I've heard many people say, and I agree with, eliminating circle 2. Just make Circle 1 somewhere between 20-30 meters (opinions vary on the distance). That would make the first "legal" jump pump at least 65-66 feet away. And it doesn't affect the equipment everyone already has or the that courses need to change.

Pros should be making 20 footers at an extremely high clip. I enjoy that wind, elevations, different manufacturers baskets, pressure of moment can still affect the putt and think there are already enough variables. I like watching people score and be rewarded for good shots, it makes for more drama filled endings. I do find myself worried less about the putting green, and more about the hole design. Where horrid shots off the tee can still easily par verses well thrown tee shots now having to hit a gimmick putt to make birdie. I don't know what the right answer is, but I don't think making the basket smaller is the answer. But like I said above, I think Circle 1 is too small for step/jump putts to come into play at 10 meters, at the pro level at least.

 

[DavidSauls]

The limitation to a larger "putting area" (i.e., no falling or jump putts) is that it's harder to estimate/agree on if not marked, and a lot more work to mark them all (particularly on wooded courses).

It's another trade-off. Would it reduce made putts outside 10M significantly enough to warrant the effort?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

The limitation to a larger "putting area" (i.e., no falling or jump putts) is that it's harder to estimate/agree on if not marked, and a lot more work to mark them all (particularly on wooded courses).

It's another trade-off. Would it reduce made putts outside 10M significantly enough to warrant the effort?

So let's get spicy and eliminate finishing in front of your lie being legal, from tee to basket. No need to mark anything. Of course I'm kidding, but no matter what anyone suggests, someone is going to disagree and point towards how much expense, work, or inconvenience the change will be. I'd be fine with it staying the same.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm fine with it staying the same, as well.

I'm not reflexively against change, just aware that any change has pros and cons, and caution to make sure that the cons don't outweigh the pros.

(And if I were Rules Czar, a position that has yet to be offered to me, probably for good reason, I'd eliminate the 10M circle and allow follow-through from tee to basket.)

 

[ru4por]

I stand by.....who cares how baskets affect pro players? Nothing in the game should change for a couple hundred players. I am not likely to be convinced, the other 99.99% of players find putting too easy.

 

[Steve West]

I'm fine with it staying the same, as well.

I'm not reflexively against change, just aware that any change has pros and cons, and caution to make sure that the cons don't outweigh the pros.

(And if I were Rules Czar, a position that has yet to be offered to me, probably for good reason, I'd eliminate the 10M circle and allow follow-through from tee to basket.)

The Supreme Ecclesiastical Rules Official has no record of receiving your formal request.


What would the future Rules Czar do about jump throws?

 

[DavidSauls]

The Supreme Ecclesiastical Rules Official has no record of receiving your formal request.


What would the future Rules Czar do about jump throws?

If they leave the ground before release, let the group call it.

If it's too close to call, let it go.


*

The PDGA already granted 1 of my 3 campaign platforms, more or less. I would decree that if the target catches the disc, it counts, rather than the convoluted of "if you saw how it entered". They pretty much went my way, except for DROTs.

(The 3rd is "no penalty for lost discs" because, I lost my disc! Isnt' that enough?)

At this rate, within 50 years all my rules wishes will be granted, and I can withdraw my application for Rules Czar.

 

[jupiterboy]

Seems like the wind has a real influence on how easy putting is. Smaller baskets could make for some huge scores on a really windy course or a windy day.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Leave my em-effin' baskets alone!
I ain't going down this rabbit hole.
...again!

If the DGPT wants to make putting more difficult in their events, allow other pros to play defense while someone putts.

Defending players should have to stand midway between the putting player and the basket. That would make it really tough to putt very close, easing up as you move further out as putting players would have more room to operate, and defending players have more space to cover.

With his long reach and youthful reflexes, I bet Buhr would defend almost as well as he putts.

 

[ejvogie]

Make everyone C2 and in all putt at the same time.

 

[jupiterboy]

Make it like US football on the line, where you can't use your hands.

 

[sillybizz]

I'm NOT a fan of standardized baskets. One of my favorite things about course bagging is seeing all of the unique courses and baskets along the way. Places like Lake Stevens or Horning's Hideout or NSRA DGC just wouldn't be the same without the fun baskets they provide. Even the baskets on those courses aren't all perfectly the same and it's more fun because of it.