[Innova] KC Pro/DX flat top same as Roc3

[greendiscs]

Has anyone else noticed the similarities between the KC Pro/DC flat top rocs and the Roc3's? In my opinion these are all the same mold, just obviously different plastic blends. The only difference i can see is that the "champion roc3" has a little more low speed fade with a little less glide, compared to the KC Pro/DX which, to me, has a little more glide with less low speed fade at the end.

 

[Three Putt]

The flat top Roc isn't a mold. It's part of the full-color stamp process; the machine flattens the disc.

 

[5QU166Y]

Someone asked Paul McBeth almost the same question. Here's what he said:

How is a flat top KC Roc different from a Roc3 besides plastic? I honestly don't know...

Its a new mold, thinner and a bit faster also out of the box a bit straighter.

 

[thugjitsu]

My beat battle roc flies so similar I dropped the rc3. It may have been faster but it wasn't farther. I do think those not throwing them are missing out though as they fly real nice.

 

[Allurex]

The flat top Roc isn't a mold. It's part of the full-color stamp process; the machine flattens the disc.

They have also put out Flat Top KC Pro and DX Rocs this last year that are not full-color stamp. The folks at DD told me all you have to do is ask for a flattened mold and they'll do it, same as the flat Firebirds.

 

[samfoy]

For the flat top KCs and dxs they still use the full color stamp machine. They just don't do the dyes anymore for whatever reason.

 

[whentherainscome]

all you have to do is ask

The might've sold a few more batches of totem TB's if they'd been flattened.

 

[greendiscs]

All three, DX, KC pro, and Roc3 all have the same "semi plus" style grip. They all came out "around" the same time, the difference could be the way the different plastics dry/cool etc. the PM response was for the regular rancho mold.

Just to be clear, we are talking about "kc pro flat top roc" "dx flat top roc" "roc3".

 

[Allurex]

The might've sold a few more batches of totem TB's if they'd been flattened.

Well I'm not positive they do it for every mold. I know they do the Rocs and Firebirds obviously.

 

[jcassidy1990]

Agreed. I'd have a stack of totems if they were flat

 

[Swisher Streets]

Every flat top dx I have old and new are quite a bit different than the roc3s..

 

[thechamp]

I don't like flat Rocs or flat Teebirds but the last straw with the Roc was when Dave D. said on the PDGA forum that the KC Pro Roc was not changing so I ordered a couple and they had the semi plus rim on them. Dave also said the Shark and the Mako would now be made in the Shark3 and Mako3 mold which I assume means semi plus.
I really don't know how any of these discs are PDGA legal, it's obvious the Roc is not the Same Roc that was approved by the PDGA, so why don't they have to submit the new Roc for approval?

 

[cali]

The new Flat Top KC Pro and DX Rocs are not a new mold. Innova is just using a factory process to flatten the discs. It is stated in the CFR email to TD's I believe. Our local TD said you can have the KC or DX discs "Flat Topped" for a few extra bucks a disc.

 

[Three Putt]

For the flat top KCs and dxs they still use the full color stamp machine. They just don't do the dyes anymore for whatever reason.

They can't buy pigment for the old machine, but they still have it. If you run the discs through the machine it still flattens them, but does not apply the stamp.

 

[greendiscs]

Is this the beggining of a whole new run of "flattened" discs. Because if all you have to do is ask, then i have a list of "flat discs" that i want. Not to say that anyone is wrong, but it doesnt seem logical or cost effective for them to "re run" and disc through a machine. It looks like three times to me, injection mold, foil stamp, then the "magic flattener machine"? Labor cost alone would double to do all of this. I know someone said "for a couple extra bucks" but that is a stretch, sounds more of a favor for someone than and actual "manufacturing process".....

Again, im playing devils advocate for sake of argument. Just dont think Innova does many "favors" for the masses, if you just ask. Maybe for a 1000+ disc buying retailer such as dynamic discs but not for Mr. Small Time like myself.

 

[Apoth]

Is this the beggining of a whole new run of "flattened" discs. Because if all you have to do is ask, then i have a list of "flat discs" that i want. Not to say that anyone is wrong, but it doesnt seem logical or cost effective for them to "re run" and disc through a machine. It looks like three times to me, injection mold, foil stamp, then the "magic flattener machine"? Labor cost alone would double to do all of this. I know someone said "for a couple extra bucks" but that is a stretch, sounds more of a favor for someone than and actual "manufacturing process".....

Again, im playing devils advocate for sake of argument. Just dont think Innova does many "favors" for the masses, if you just ask. Maybe for a 1000+ disc buying retailer such as dynamic discs but not for Mr. Small Time like myself.

FWIW, I was told by Lars at LSDiscs that all he had to do was ask Innova for a flat top roc when he ordered some CFR KC Pros and they gave them to him. I'm fairly sure he didn't order 1000 of them either. There may be some minimum number, but I don't think you have to order thousands like you do with Discraft if you want a special/limited edition disc.

 

[thechamp]

The new Flat Top KC Pro and DX Rocs are not a new mold. Innova is just using a factory process to flatten the discs. It is stated in the CFR email to TD's I believe. Our local TD said you can have the KC or DX discs "Flat Topped" for a few extra bucks a disc.

I wasn't saying the flat top Roc is a new mold I was saying all Rocs are a new mold or a new part to the mold. I know it's a small difference but the plus rims have been slowly worked into the mix the last few years and when I picked up a stack of fresh Rocs the other day they were all plus rims.
As stated I find it hard to believe that there is an extra step in production, it could just be how this new run of champion plastic is molding up. I guess we'll see when the Roc3 shows up in other plastics.

 

[notroman]

I don't like flat Rocs or flat Teebirds but the last straw with the Roc was when Dave D. said on the PDGA forum that the KC Pro Roc was not changing so I ordered a couple and they had the semi plus rim on them. Dave also said the Shark and the Mako would now be made in the Shark3 and Mako3 mold which I assume means semi plus.
I really don't know how any of these discs are PDGA legal, it's obvious the Roc is not the Same Roc that was approved by the PDGA, so why don't they have to submit the new Roc for approval?

My guess is Shark3 and Mako3 would use the Roc3 top, which is the only part of the Roc mold that was changed for the Roc3.

 

[Apoth]

I wasn't saying the flat top Roc is a new mold I was saying all Rocs are a new mold or a new part to the mold. I know it's a small difference but the plus rims have been slowly worked into the mix the last few years and when I picked up a stack of fresh Rocs the other day they were all plus rims.
As stated I find it hard to believe that there is an extra step in production, it could just be how this new run of champion plastic is molding up. I guess we'll see when the Roc3 shows up in other plastics.

I do believe there is more than just the slanted rim to the Roc+. Dave Dunipace has said it on DGR, and I've confirmed it in person, that, while both have a slanted rim now, the Roc+ has the tooling on the underside of the flight plate significantly further than the tooling on the slanted rim KC Pros or DX rocs. My understanding of the molding process (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that the slant on the rim would be created by the "core" of the mold and that core would also be responsible for the tooling. So it seems that the slanted KC Pros/DX rocs and the Roc + have a different core and potentially other different parts as well.

 

[greendiscs]

The 1000+ comment was meant to set the larger retailers apart from say, you and I. I can see innova doing a "favor" for someone who buys as many discs as dynamic, LSdiscs, etc.

So what i gather so far, is that the only "roc3's" are the most recent CHAMPION plastic released discs, and the "Flat top pro kc roc" and "Flat top dx roc" are not new molds, rather "FLATTENED" by request?

I play at trophy lakes in charleston, the shop there went through their, unrequested, order of flat top dx rocs in no time and i started to inquire more info about them from the manager. He told me, i ordered "DX rocs" with the "TL" logo on them, (foil stamp), and the "flat top" version was sent, no extra $ or anything.

So my next few questions, to open this "roc box" a little wider: are these going to be the new dx rocs, by request only, or just another option in the Roc family that we've all grown to love and hate? Is there a chance for this "flattening process" become the next "new thing"? Everyone seems to get excited when the word FLAT comes into the mix.....