Let's talk Deer Lakes

[vslaugh]

I don't think we've had any Deer Lakes-specific threads yet here, so let's hear your comments, suggestions, scorn, and adulation for this site's #6-rated course.


In particular, the 2011 Scholl's Bicycle Centers Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open--an NT event on August 27-28--will include Deer Lakes for the first time, and I'm hoping to help in preparing the course. So, any ideas for the course are welcomed, and good ones stand a decent chance at being implemented...or at least being passed on to the course designer's desk.

Here are current course priorities:

• Address drainage issues on Hole 3
• Landscape Holes 8 and 7 to make more interesting (with signs to improve navigation)
• Move pin 9A to more difficult location to make it Par 5 instead of Par 4.5
• Move a couple poorly placed pins: 2C, 7C

Also,

• Get better (updated) pictures on dgcoursereview
• Rotate pin positions more regularly

 

[prerube]

overrated top 10 course.

 

[DangeRuss]

overrated top 10 course.

 

[prerube]

I rated it a 4.5 so I am part of the problem.
but I do think saying it is a top 6 in the US is pushing it.

 

[vslaugh]

overrated top 10 course.

My list of courses played is pretty limited so I can't really compare Deer Lakes to most other top courses in the country, except to say it's by far the best of the 30 or so I've played. All I know is flexible schedule of a grad student + living in Pittsburgh = one morning every week or two during all months of the year with Deer Lakes park all to myself. And I couldn't be happier.

What's your experience been with Deer Lakes more specifically, prerube? There are certainly plenty of ways to criticize the course...some I've heard that I agree with and others that I disagree with.

 

[vslaugh]

Deer Lakes Animal Encounters

Here's a list of interesting/semi-interesting animals I've run into at Deer Lakes. Anyone have any good ones to add?

Porcupine (Hole 2)
Box Turtle (Hole 7, 15)
Garter Snake (Hole 10)
Birds: Downy Woodpecker, Blue Heron, Hawks

Oh, and...Deer!!!

 

[tistoude]

Prerube I have played some other top rated courses and I think Deer Lakes stacks up very well against them. The design is fantastic and once some cosmetics, like grass around the new tees and drainage issues are updated I think a case could be made for it being a number 1 contender.

One thing that I think it lacks is some unique personality. Like Flip has the rock cairns and Idlewild with the white stones lining the creek. I think the Pond on 15 might be it but it needs better maintanence along the shore line and a better bridge. Also I am very interested in having the drainage mess on 12 and 16 cleaned up or spruced up. If the water leak continues I like the idea of creating a channel with a small bridge over it.

 

[prerube]

My list of courses played is pretty limited so I can't really compare Deer Lakes to most other top courses in the country, except to say it's by far the best of the 30 or so I've played. All I know is flexible schedule of a grad student + living in Pittsburgh = one morning every week or two during all months of the year with Deer Lakes park all to myself. And I couldn't be happier.

What's your experience been with Deer Lakes more specifically, prerube? There are certainly plenty of ways to criticize the course...some I've heard that I agree with and others that I disagree with.

you can read my review, I made the mistake of playing it last in a day of 3 courses so I have to get up there and replay it very soon. Also I probably reviewed it 2 years ago, so there are probably improvements.
I have played 105 and I am not sure it is in my top 5, it just was not memorable.
If Parma had dual tees and navigational signage, it would probably beat dear lakes. (I can not think of any other courses near you to compare it to. Quaker's Challenge was more exciting and memorable (not saying it is a better course)

 

[optidiscic]

PreRube what courses are better than Deer Lakes.....I really enjoyed Deer Lakes for it's variety and combo of challenge and fun.....Ive played quite a few courses and to me it stacks up really well against other so called top courses.

 

[vslaugh]

Prerube I have played some other top rated courses and I think Deer Lakes stacks up very well against them. The design is fantastic and once some cosmetics, like grass around the new tees and drainage issues are updated I think a case could be made for it being a number 1 contender.

One thing that I think it lacks is some unique personality. Like Flip has the rock cairns and Idlewild with the white stones lining the creek. I think the Pond on 15 might be it but it needs better maintanence along the shore line and a better bridge. Also I am very interested in having the drainage mess on 12 and 16 cleaned up or spruced up. If the water leak continues I like the idea of creating a channel with a small bridge over it.

I'm pretty sure J. Gary said the park or water authority stopped trying to fix the pipes under Hole 16's fairway and finally just cut off the water.

 

[prerube]

PreRube what courses are better than Deer Lakes.....I really enjoyed Deer Lakes for it's variety and combo of challenge and fun.....Ive played quite a few courses and to me it stacks up really well against other so called top courses.

I did not think it blew Quaker Challenge out of the water, Hawk Hallow was better, but that is private.
Again, I played it one time, so some of the things I saw may have not been the norm.
There were some areas that were over grown and I think there was raw sewage leaking out near one of the bathrooms so I had to play one hole with my nose plugged.

I am not saying it is a bad course, I rated it a 4.5 (the highest I have ever given) I also put in the review that this course is a contender for the top 10. Maybe when I go back I will change my review and give my first 5 and change my tune. The course just did not have the wow factor that Renny gold had. It was a good solid course with few flaws, but little wow. (deer lakes is superior to renny, but renny had more unique signature holes)

 

[Cgkdisc]

My problem with Deer Lakes was a technical one which J Gary admits was his design orientation. It's a Blue-Gold course in terms of many hole distances. As a Blue level player, I did not have as much fun as if I had a gold level arm. Several of the holes would always be just out of reach for a birdie 2, or 3 on some par 4s. Those same holes, frustrating for me, would be a little on the easier side for gold level players. I liked a lot of the holes from a routing and aesthetic standpoint with some work apparently being planned on a few back nine holes plus the water issue on 3. Probably in my top 30 but not top 10 courses.

 

[gdub58]

I, like prerube, played Deer Lakes as my third course in a marathon day, so my opinion is based on a few notes and a fairly clear recollection of several of the holes.

Several things in its favor - multiple tees/pin locations, good balance length-wise and a mixture of open and wooded holes.

On the other hand, I felt there were a few wooded holes (1,5,6,14 I think) where there was a lack of a clear line to throw through, which is annoying.

There are a some really great holes, but too many straightforward holes to make the course overall a top 10. It's in my top 10, but I haven't played nearly enough courses to believe it would stay there once I've been around a bit more. I actually preferred Moraine to Deer Lakes overall, in that the design as a whole seemed more consistent and interesting. Deer Lakes goes from intense to average and back again.

I just returned from a trip to Georgia and would rate the design of the two long courses at IDGC higher as a one-time play. For a tournament Deer Lakes would be more suitable with the multiple tees and the occasional break from the woods.

 

[prerube]

If you are looking at it from a competition stand point, it is a soild course. But I think a true 5 needs to appeal to the masses. Take a course like Deer lakes and put in a wuss tee, so begginners can experience how great the course is instead of getting so frustrated they never play again. I guess since Deer lakes has 3 tees one should be a gold level, one should be ideal for intermediate, and one for noobs and noodle arms.

 

[Rol6566]

If you are looking at it from a competition stand point, it is a soild course. But I think a true 5 needs to appeal to the masses. Take a course like Deer lakes and put in a wuss tee, so begginners can experience how great the course is instead of getting so frustrated they never play again. I guess since Deer lakes has 3 tees one should be a gold level, one should be ideal for intermediate, and one for noobs and noodle arms.

They have red tees at Deer lakes that are considerably shorter than the blue and whites

 

[vslaugh]

My problem with Deer Lakes was a technical one which J Gary admits was his design orientation. It's a Blue-Gold course in terms of many hole distances. As a Blue level player, I did not have as much fun as if I had gold level arm. Several of the holes would always be just out of reach for a birdie 2, or 3 on some par 4s. Those same holes, frustrating for me, would be a little on the easier side for gold level players. I liked a lot of the holes from a routing and aesthetic standpoint with some work apparently being planned on a few back nine holes plus the water issue on 3. Probably in my top 30 but not top 10 courses.

Yeah, that's theoretically my biggest problem with Deer Lakes, too, although in practice I like it as the extra distance tends to work to my advantage.

In reality, the Front 9 blue tees play a little above 950-rated, and the white tees play a little above 900-rated. The Back 9 blue tees play about 1000-rated, and the white tees play about 950-rated. Combining, white tees play in the 930-940 range, and blue tees play in the 975-990 range. I've kept pretty good records of my rounds at Deer Lakes, and my blue tees scoring average on the Back 9 is 1.92 throws higher than the Front 9.

I was in your foursome, Chuck, when you visited Deer Lakes last year on 20 June, and enjoyed the chance to meet you. Next time you're out, you'll have to give the white tees a try. It would probably make a lot of the holes a whole lot more fun.

As I think about it, I guess the blue tees really should have been colored gold, and white tees should have been colored blue. Or, theoretically, a fourth tee could be added to some holes--some behind existing tees or some in front of existing tees, depending on the hole--to get the course more properly in sync with red/white/blue/gold ratings, but four giant concrete tees would be obnoxious.

 

[ENold]

Iron Hill> Deer Lakes and it has yet to be completed!

 

[optidiscic]

Deer Lakes favors no player...I think thats why it is thought as overrated....too wide open for woodsy players and then too woodsy for wide open players. I played it the same day I played Morraine, (Morraine was admittedly tougher but also had natural tees and an abundance of troublesome schule) I will admit there was a plethora of different lines all over the place at Morraine while Deer Lakes was a bit more about executing a particular shot)
Deer Lakes is a bit of a tweener course thats true and probably why I enjoyed it.
I would like to add that making holes a true pro par 5 or a true par 4 etc. is an exercise in bad judgement as this makes for a weak course as most players of a similiar skill level scores will get bunched up together. I think design should be TRYING to attain a 4.5, 5.5, 3.5 or 2.5 as SSA as this causes more wild fluctuations in score and birdies or bogies separate the field rather than 90% of the field getting a par. It just makes for funner holes when you could birdie every hole rather than just expecting to make the avg ssa par....MY HUGE .02 but no one seems to get that!

 

[vslaugh]

Deer Lakes favors no player...I think thats why it is thought as overrated....too wide open for woodsy players and then too woodsy for wide open players. I played it the same day I played Morraine, (Morraine was admittedly tougher but also had natural tees and an abundance of troublesome schule) I will admit there was a plethora of different lines all over the place at Morraine while Deer Lakes was a bit more about executing a particular shot)
Deer Lakes is a bit of a tweener course thats true and probably why I enjoyed it.
I would like to add that making holes a true pro par 5 or a true par 4 etc. is an exercise in bad judgement as this makes for a weak course as most players of a similiar skill level scores will get bunched up together. I think design should be TRYING to attain a 4.5, 5.5, 3.5 or 2.5 as SSA as this causes more wild fluctuations in score and birdies or bogies separate the field rather than 90% of the field getting a par. It just makes for funner holes when you could birdie every hole rather than just expecting to make the avg ssa par....MY HUGE .02 but no one seems to get that!

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Isn't a hole with a 2.5 SSA (presumably, the average score for a 1000-rated player) generally your standard Par 3 on a blue course? Or do you mean that the field a hole is designed for should average a tweener score?

In my experience, Deer Lakes gives very nice scoring distributions on most holes (that's part of my definition of "well-designed"), with only an exception or two (e.g., advanced ams playing Hole 10 blue). Birdies and bogies are both plausible.

 

[vslaugh]

They have red tees at Deer lakes that are considerably shorter than the blue and whites

And take a look at the red tees (5685')...they're just as nice if not nicer than the whites (7257') and blues (8316'). I think one thing to the course's credit is that it does not short-change red-level players. Now, whether the red tees actually get used by red-level players, I'm not sure.