Let's talk Deer Lakes

[Cgkdisc]

true gold ssa of 4.5 yields more score separation and a more interesting round
longer is not always better. I'd like to see a course of all 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 the ssa nerds who want round numbers would hate it but it would make for a great tourney course with all the fluctuations

Not a good idea for wooded holes. You DO want scoring average between x.7-x.2 not x.3-x.6. You normally get good scoring spread on wooded holes so you don't need the gimmick of adjusting for x.5. That can sometimes be okay on more open holes. But all you've done is essentially throw a bone to the power players in that skill level. They are the ones who predominantly get the shot at bird so the average gets to x.5.

 

[vslaugh]

Awesome! You birdied 3 & 5, but not 4. Interesting... that's usually my guaranteed birdie chance.

On a side note, if you need help this summer getting the course in shape, PM me.

Great, PM sent. Anyone else interested is welcome to let me know and might want to consider joining the PFDS. Even if you don't play in the events--which are fun and full of good people--it's only $10 and you can connect with others to help improve existing courses and develop new ones. Plus, more members will make our organization look better when we approach parks, sponsors, etc. Basically, if you play disc golf in the Pittsburgh area, we want to hear from you!

 

[vslaugh]

What you do is permanently mark the "gold" tees in advance so the gold course is known. We have some courses out there with two sets of tees - Blue and Red. However, the best of the two tees for White level is also painted on that tee and marked on the sign. So the White tees marked on the first six holes might be: Blue, Blue, Red, Red, Blue, Red.

The interesting thing in the case of Deer Lakes is that your "Gold" course would be shorter than the max blue course but would be the best challenge overall for the gold level players in terms of beating the lower gold par which might be 60-62.

I never pursued the idea, but I thought of along similar lines to convert Deer Lakes into a blue-level course with an SSA eligible for the global challenge. So, it's a fun idea to consider.

However, the more I think about it, it doesn't seem like a good fit for Deer Lakes, other than maybe playing Hole 9 as a Par 4, for the following reasons:

1. We obviously don't want to make any of the Par 3s easier (9 holes)
2. Thinking of converting Par 4s to Par 3s (that's 6 holes) by gold players playing from the red tees, none would make for good holes statistically or aesthetically.
3. The blue tees on Holes 3 and 14 are both quality disc golf shots that I don't think we want to give up. Plus, making sure those two holes are in B and C pin should mostly take care of the problem.

I think the best solution is to mostly keep things the way they are (possibly except for Hole 9) and make sure pins are intelligently positioned. I guess D pins could be selectively added, too, if we're still scratching our heads about how to make it a good course for gold-level players. Or, we could just not worry about it and put Moraine golds and its Par 66 / SSA 66.31 on cleanup duty.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I don't think you should worry about a gold setup. It's tough enough as it is.

 

[vslaugh]

I don't think you should worry about a gold setup. It's tough enough as it is.

Ok, "keep it simple" sounds like good advice. Plus, it will be fun to see how all the pros play the same course I regularly play.

 

[vslaugh]

Spring is slowly approaching...

 

[WillGrrr]

So you took my brand-new Dragon off the ice!

Having been there yesterday, Vince, you will have noticed the stone steps on 11 need attention. We should re-set them or, even more ambitiously, replace them. I fear they will deteriorate further and possibly pose a liability. Sorry, I should've taken a picture.

 

[vslaugh]

So you took my brand-new Dragon off the ice!

No, it wasn't me, sorry. If you've met me, you'll know I'm not the type of person to be venturing out on ice this time of year. Plus, I make an attempt to return any discs I find to owners. I did play 15 once around 3:30pm and another time around 5:30pm, and noticed there were fewer discs on the ice the second time. That stinks, though, if someone took your disc.

Having been there yesterday, Vince, you will have noticed the stone steps on 11 need attention. We should re-set them or, even more ambitiously, replace them. I fear they will deteriorate further and possibly pose a liability. Sorry, I should've taken a picture.

Yeah, I saw those steps were pretty bad. I noticed a bunch of little things on the Back 9 too, such as that hanging tree limb on 15 and thorns on 14 by the second ravine. Also, many tees could use dirt around them.

I'm a grad student living in an apartment in Pittsburgh, so my access to tools is limited, but I'll ask around to try to get something scheduled ASAP. If there's anything anyone wants to do on your own, shoot an email to PFDS Course Superintendent J. Gary Dropcho (coursesuper <at> pfds.org).

 

[vslaugh]

New Photos

Ten nice new photos of Deer Lakes added, courtesy of PFDS member Jerry Gotcher.

 

[Mando]

Wow ! The most awesome dg course photo ever...!

 

[tallpaul]

Yes, it is.

 

[Kwick]

That is a sick photo.

Vslaugh, how would you compare Deer Lakes to Camp Sankanac?

 

[Raptor]

14, right? I loved that hole in the fall, which is funny because when all the leaves are still up, 14 is my nemesis.

 

[vslaugh]

That is a sick photo.

Vslaugh, how would you compare Deer Lakes to Camp Sankanac?

I think Camp Sankanac actually has a couple better--or at least more memorable--holes (#2,9, maybe 10 and 11?) than Deer Lakes, but Deer Lakes is simply grander in every other sense. All holes at Deer Lakes are good to very good (but none really extraordinary). Deer Lakes Park is more secluded and feels bigger than Camp Sankanac, and the woods are composed of more mature hardwood trees (e.g., the picture of Hole 14 I posted last page). Each hole has three beautiful concrete teepads per hole tailored to specific skill levels, and I believe the tees are certified to land certain classes of military aircraft. Three pin positions (A, B, and C) help keep things interesting as the pins rotate among them, but the par doesn't change.

Deer Lakes also has the addicting quality that, if you play from the appropriate tees, a birdie, par, and bogey+ are all feasible on basically every hole. So, it's really fun to play against par and to have birdie/par/bogey really mean something. Camp Sankanac wasn't designed quite so well, as I'd call holes 5-7 Par 3.5s, for example. For example, blue tees are rated ~980. I'm a ~950-rated player, and I average about a +2 68 from the blue tees. So, maybe I'm weird, but I find it thrilling to try to challenge par and shoot under 66 each round because each hole matters. This would work, but not quite so perfectly, at Camp Sankanac.

Finally, think Holes 8 and 9 at Camp Sankanac, add 50 years of tree growth and concrete tees, and those holes would fit right in at Deer Lakes: tough tree gaps you must hit, elevation changes, throwing from woods into the grassy open or into the woods from the open (for Hole 8), and well-placed baskets to make for an interesting green.

I feel like I sort of rambled, but hopefully that helps to get a sense of the difference between two of PA's best courses. By the way, much of the same analysis applies to Camp Sankanac vs. Moraine State Park, and Camp Sankanac is probably closer to Moraine in terms of terrain. But overall I think both Camp Sankanac and Deer Lakes have more fun disc golf shots than Moraine.

 

[vslaugh]

14, right? I loved that hole in the fall, which is funny because when all the leaves are still up, 14 is my nemesis.

Yep, 14. It can be brutal. Today my first three throws took me all of 100'. But in general it's a fair hole and the more you play it the bigger the lanes look.

 

[optidiscic]

I don't think Sankanac really compares with either Moraine or Deer Lakes in terms of disc golf experience. I dont even think its remotely close.
I feel drawn to return to Deer Lakes and Moraine and they are on the other side of the state. I don't feel drawn to Sankanac and its only 40 minutes away.
Not Hating on Sankanac but it's not up to the challenge, beauty, design, amenities, seclusion, and total overall experience of Moraine and Deer Lakes.
Playing IUP, Deer Lakes, and Moraine is a trinity of DG that every PA disc golfer should do one day.

 

[optidiscic]

Yep, 14. It can be brutal. Today my first three throws took me all of 100'. But in general it's a fair hole and the more you play it the bigger the lanes look.

14 is a great disc golf hole...with just enough ravine to punish a poor throw and theres multiple lines to get there but just not one obvious route......for some reason this lack of a defined lane angers some DGers. Haters great hole :clap:

 

[vslaugh]

14 is a great disc golf hole...with just enough ravine to punish a poor throw and theres multiple lines to get there but just not one obvious route......for some reason this lack of a defined lane angers some DGers. Haters great hole :clap:

I really have developed a lot of respect for Hole 14 and can't wait to see how the pros play it in August. I'll have to think about it, but it might actually be my favorite hole at Deer Lakes. The hole unfolds in such a cool way, especially for the back right pin (B). Having to hit the gap over the second ravine is an awesome challenge, and there aren't too many better feelings in the sport than watching your second shot thread that gap and park on the opposite hillside to set up a fun approach shot.

The left side is a much easier route, in my experience, though, although it's definitely not obvious from the tee.

 

[Mando]

Huh??? That doesn't seem to line up with your review of CS...(heaven, must play)

 

[Raptor]

I was hoping to get to DL this weekend, given the better weather we've been having. Unfortunately it looks like rain the next couple days. I'll probably have to wait until March has come and gone to get out there.