Maple Hill Open

[Menacewarf]

The path that you are suggesting would have been "awful" golf for someone of Wysocki's skill set. He went into the Par 4 Hole 18 with a 1 stroke lead. Ricky had the longest drive off of the tee. Koling had a good drive and took his 2nd shot before Ricky. Jeremy executes the forehand approach shot from a longer distance but a slightly easier angle and is positioned for a tap in 3.

Given the above set of facts, I don't see who any credible pro can justify "laying up" with a safe backhand to play the hole for a 4, thus creating a playoff instead of going for a "3 and the win". Again, going for the 3 did not require any extraordinary shot (certainly no harder than what Koling had just done) and it was a shot that everyone expected Ricky to execute. He didn't want to come up short so he threw it a little bit harder than necessary, bangs off the wall and rolls OB.
.

The reason he should have layed up is because of the pressure and past experience. Yes it's an easy shot for him in a vaccume. But now he is 0-2 on that shot with the tourney on the line. How many times does he have to miss that "easy shot" to win the tournament before you take a step back and look at the stratagey of it?

We agree about the scenario entirely. I just think it's bad stratagey. He put the whole weight of the tournament and redemption for his past OB there with the tourney on the line squarely on himself and his shot. Not surprisingly he juices it a bit and misses long to roll OB. If he lays up like I said, he says, " this isn't gonna happen again, I'm gonna go win on 1 (or wherever the playoff would be)" than he takes the pressure off himself and puts more than half back on big jerm. I know it sounds foreign because it's not in the culture of disc golf but now he's lost twice on that shot. So you can say how easy it was but his ratio so far on that "easy shot" for a win or chance to win is .000

Great end to the tourney though.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Anyone else have to do a double take on Colglazier's birdie on #8?

It looked as if he took a really awkward stance that didnt have a lot of relation to his lie...

Just a guess but, taking a meter in perpendicular to the OB line he would have to place his mini inside a tree (unplayable) so he stuck his mini as close to the tree as possible while being in line with the meter in mark and the basket. Pretty sure this is legal.

 

[Streets]

Anyone else have to do a double take on Colglazier's birdie on #8?

It looked as if he took a really awkward stance that didnt have a lot of relation to his lie...

We were all distracted by his glorious mullet :|

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Ricky should have thrown a bowfly FTW.

 

[Streets]

Ricky should have thrown a bowfly FTW.

Prodigy's next putter, the PA5 or "the BroFly"

 

[Emoney]

The reason he should have layed up is because of the pressure and past experience. Yes it's an easy shot for him in a vaccume. But now he is 0-2 on that shot with the tourney on the line. How many times does he have to miss that "easy shot" to win the tournament before you take a step back and look at the stratagey of it?

We agree about the scenario entirely. I just think it's bad stratagey. He put the whole weight of the tournament and redemption for his past OB there with the tourney on the line squarely on himself and his shot. Not surprisingly he juices it a bit and misses long to roll OB. If he lays up like I said, he says, " this isn't gonna happen again, I'm gonna go win on 1 (or wherever the playoff would be)" than he takes the pressure off himself and puts more than half back on big jerm. I know it sounds foreign because it's not in the culture of disc golf but now he's lost twice on that shot. So you can say how easy it was but his ratio so far on that "easy shot" for a win or chance to win is .000

Great end to the tourney though.

Bad strategy to go for the win with a shot u will make 9/10 times? Play for a playoff when ur in the perfect position to take the win?

U sir just need to stay off this thread, i think we are all tired of ur rediculous opinions.:wall:

 

[Anon]

Pretty easy in hindsight to say he should have 'layed up' on that shot.

I'd trust Ricky's forehand approach any day of the week. He has that **** on lockdown.

That 'bad shot' was a combination of nerves and terrible luck. Nerves will go away by taking more and more of those shots in high-pressure situations. Terrible luck happens... nobody is immune.

 

[Kp0c]

I know with all of the young talent in disc golf the mentality is that he has to go for it and everyone always has to play aggressive. But the fact is by going for it he lost. If he laid up I think he's got a better than even chance of winning.

Sure that shot is usually a better than even shot, likely even better than 75% for Ricky but he had all the pressure in the world on him. By laying up he says to jerm, I think I'm better than you, and puts the pressure back on jerm.

I don't find your argument relevant. You approximated Ricky had a 75% chance of making the shot (which is conservative in my opinion. From where he was, I'd say at least 80%) while the alternative is playoff. The only way laying off would be the better option was if he thought he had more than 75% chance of winning in a playoff, which is extremely unlikely, especially the way big Jerm was playing.
Playoff was probably 50%. Attempting to hit the green was not a risky shot, if was actually the highest percentage shot in my opinion.

 

[Kp0c]

The reason he should have layed up is because of the pressure and past experience. Yes it's an easy shot for him in a vaccume. But now he is 0-2 on that shot with the tourney on the line. How many times does he have to miss that "easy shot" to win the tournament before you take a step back and look at the stratagey of it?

We agree about the scenario entirely. I just think it's bad stratagey. He put the whole weight of the tournament and redemption for his past OB there with the tourney on the line squarely on himself and his shot. Not surprisingly he juices it a bit and misses long to roll OB. If he lays up like I said, he says, " this isn't gonna happen again, I'm gonna go win on 1 (or wherever the playoff would be)" than he takes the pressure off himself and puts more than half back on big jerm. I know it sounds foreign because it's not in the culture of disc golf but now he's lost twice on that shot. So you can say how easy it was but his ratio so far on that "easy shot" for a win or chance to win is .000

Great end to the tourney though.

One could actually argue that your logic is flawed.
Given what we know of Ricky's skills, we mostly all agree that the shot was around 75% of success. The odds of him not making it three times in a row is therefore extremely unlikelly since he should rouglhy score a three 3/4 of the time, especially from where he was.
However, what actually happened doesn't illustrate this !!

 

[Menacewarf]

Agree to disagree. You can keep saying that shot is easy but he lost the touney on it now twice, and won the tourney on it 0. Never even a push.

 

[JAKE master]

bottom line, a couple strokes of bad luck on what was an easy shot for him. hes gonna tear GHDGO up before crushing at worlds. thats my hope and prediction.

 

[Allurex]

Okay, so let's say Ricky decides that running the green is too risky, and he decides to lay-up and take a 4. Jeremy makes his 3 and they go to a playoff.

Hole 1: Big long drive with a small green surrounded by OB


Then what? Lay up short of that green too? Take the easy 4? Should Koling lay up as well?

That's not how you win NTs. Period.

 

[elnino]

Agree to disagree. You can keep saying that shot is easy but he lost the touney on it now twice, and won the tourney on it 0. Never even a push.

that is true but these guys just believe they can do it and that is what got them there. I say go for 3 but again a lot of pressure since Jerm made his upshot. how far is it from front wall to basket. Ricky is pretty money from 35 feet and i think it looks about that distance. maybe lay up to wall for 35footer chance. I think gotta just give credit to jerm for making the clutch shot and def sounded/acted more mature.!!! go jerm.

 

[optidiscic]

champions dont lay up

 

[joshmo65]

Why is everyone assuming that laying up = 4? That doesn't look out of Ricky's range, so I think he still gets a 3 at least some of the time even if he lays up.

 

[BirdieMachine]

Why is everyone assuming that laying up = 4? That doesn't look out of Ricky's range, so I think he still gets a 3 at least some of the time even if he lays up.

Going OB doesn't mean 5 either. He had a long putt from the drop zone to get a 4 and missed.

75% going for it he makes 3 or better
5% of the time he makes 4
20% of the time he makes 5 or worse

You don't win tourneys by laying up when the odds heavily favor going for it.

I guarantee if he laid up and lost in the playoff he'd be kicking himself for being a pansy boy. Losers play not to lose. Winners play to win.

 

[Menacewarf]

G
I guarantee if he laid up and lost in the playoff he'd be kicking himself for being a pansy boy. Losers play not to lose. Winners play to win.

And now he's 0-2 with no playoffs. Yes he should play the entire tourney with that ruthless win at all cost attitude. I'm just saying it's decent golf stratagey to take a deep breath and think on the 72nd hole of a tourney, and maybe say to ones self"hmm I lost the touney on this shot once, and there's a big gallery and lots of pressure so that with my history it might all combine to lower my odds. What if I lay up and sink that putt to win or win on a playoff instead."

It's easy to second guess so I don't blame Ricky at all. He got himself there. I just think it's funny, the attitude in disc golf "laying up is not a option!" And "champs don't lay up!" . When I see McBeth lay up very clearly when he thinks he should, and now in this case, not laying up, might have cost Ricky that touney twice.

 

[chris deitzel]

Why would he lay up a 250 foot sidearm approach from the perfect angle coming into that green?

You play to win.

$500 shot, do you go for it or lay up and possibly lose on the first hole of a playoff?

NO, you go for it. Now had it been a tough shot then lay up, but that shot was exactly what Ricky wanted to win the game.

 

[Toro71]

I agree that the percentage play here wasn't that clear. Laying up may or may not have been the smartest play at the time, but it probably would have been the wrong play for Wysocki at that moment, because as someone else said, the shot itself was relatively straightforward, so laying up meant doubting a standard forehand. If that had been his mentality, he could as easily cheesed the layup shot. I think he probably made the right call for him, even though it didn't work out to put it mildly.

That being said, "go for it all the time every time" sounds like what someone who's never played with a lead says. Winners don't always go high risk. That's what casual chuckers do. Just sayin'.

 

[chris deitzel]

2 stroke lead = you lay up.
1 stroke lead, just saw Jerm park the shot, the layup would have been a 75 foot putt basically which could go OB, you have one of the best forehands of all time, and you just want to finish and win so you don't go to a playoff and possibly lose = YOU GO FOR IT. EVERY SINGLE TIME.