Measuring Tapes

[aardvarkious]

Some people carry tape measures, largely to get disc out of trees. I was reading the rules trying to figure out if it is legal. Here is what I found in 802.04:

A. During a round, a player shall not use any artificial device that may assist in making a
throw, except those devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape,
bandages, gauze, etc.) and medical items (such as knee and ankle braces, etc.). Items used to prevent slipping on the teeing surface are also allowed. A player is specifically prohibited from using any artificial device that changes the position of the disc in the player's hand or artificially lengthens any of the player's throwing levers (fingers, wrist, arm, shoulder, etc.). The use of devices which assist in determining distances over 10 meters , such as range finders and GPS devices are prohibited. Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters and less for the purpose of rules enforcement.

B. A player shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if, during any portion of a
round, he or she is observed by two players or an official to be using or carrying an artificial
device that is determined by the director to violate section 802.04 A. A player who uses an
artificial device after it has been determined by the director to be in violation of 802.04 A
has also violated Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual and shall be penalized accordingly.

This makes it sound like having a measuring tape that is over 10m is illegal: "The use of devices which assist in determining distances over 10 meters , such as range finders and GPS devices are prohibited."

However, this makes it sound like a measuring tape of any length is legal as long as you don't use it to measure a distance greater than 10m: Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters and less for the purpose of rules enforcement.

How do all of you read this?

 

[Buchajs1]

Smart thinking. I would say that you can carry any length tape measure just not use it for measuring a distance longer than 10 m

 

[stan_84]

i think you cant use tape measures and gps to "scout" how far you have to the hole, getting a disc out of the tree with said tape measure i do not believe that is illeagal as long as you are not using tape measure to see how far you are away from an obstacle or the pin unless you are determining the 10m to the basket for your falling putt rule.

 

[rocthecourse]

Pretty sure most people are only carrying 25 foot or less tape measures. The Fat Max being a popular one since it is so rigid.

 

[bradharris]

Some people carry tape measures, largely to get disc out of trees. I was reading the rules trying to figure out if it is legal. Here is what I found in 802.04:



This makes it sound like having a measuring tape that is over 10m is illegal: "The use of devices which assist in determining distances over 10 meters , such as range finders and GPS devices are prohibited."

However, this makes it sound like a measuring tape of any length is legal as long as you don't use it to measure a distance greater than 10m: Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters and less for the purpose of rules enforcement.

How do all of you read this?

I read it the same way you do. Any tape measure is fine, but don't use it to measure beyond ten meters.

The intent of the rule is to prevent players from getting out a tape measure to figure out just how far they have to go to reach the pin because that would majorly slow down play. But for borderline putting circle calls, the distance can be measured quickly to determine if a jump putt is legal or not.

 

[jrawk]

I carry a fatboy 25ft tape measure for disc retrieval purposes. I can honestly tell you extending it farther than 12 feet to reach in water or up into a tree is near impossible.

 

[1978]

You can carry 358 range finders in your bag. You just can't use them to find ranges. Same with anything else over 10m.

 

[aardvarkious]

You can carry 358 range finders in your bag. You just can't use them to find ranges. Same with anything else over 10m.

No you can't

"A player shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if, during any portion of a round, he or she is observed by two players or an official to be using or carrying an artificial device that is determined by the director to violate section 802.04 A."

Presumably this is so that players can't sneak a range finder onto the course and try to use it when no one is looking.

 

[krupicka]

That rule needs to be updated since almost every smart phone has built in GPS.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It sounds like the rule is being updated (pending PDGA Board approval) where GPS and rangefinders will be legal to carry and use starting Jan 1, 2013. You still won't have more than 30 seconds to throw when it's your turn.

 

[ERicJ]

It sounds like the rule is being updated (pending PDGA Board approval) where GPS and rangefinders will be legal to carry and use starting Jan 1, 2013. You still won't have more than 30 seconds to throw when it's your turn.

Seriously?!

Personally, I think that's kinda awesome... but seriously??

[Pauses to make sure Chuck isn't posting on April 1.]

What's the rationale behind that change? Too hard to police the old rule?

 

[Cgkdisc]

It doesn't make sense to sell a PDGA app that can't be used for scoring because the device running it has GPS capabilities in it. I pointed that out at the Fall Summit last year and they agreed the rule needed to be tweaked.

 

[Greatzky]

what the rule means is that you:
-can't use any artificial device to help you measure the distance of a shot.
-can use a device to enforce a rule requiring exact distance (Such as 2M rules or 10M putting circle).

So you could use the tape measure to figure out if you are outside the circle, but you couldn't use it from the fairway(or any device) for the sake of shot selection (like being 250ft away).

Glad to see that they are changing this, but keeping the 30 second rule!

 

[Nuke]

I think something has to be done to address the length of holes and the lack of marked distance and/or caddy books. I can't think of how many times I've been standing over a shot and been thinking, is this 240ft or 285ft? That and thrown a shot and thought it was good only to see it sail past or come up short. I like the idea of legal rangefinders, but I prefer the idea of marked courses.

 

[bradharris]

I think something has to be done to address the length of holes and the lack of marked distance and/or caddy books. I can't think of how many times I've been standing over a shot and been thinking, is this 240ft or 285ft? That and thrown a shot and thought it was good only to see it sail past or come up short. I like the idea of legal rangefinders, but I prefer the idea of marked courses.

And whose job is it to address this issue? Should the PDGA only sanction events on "properly" marked courses? That just means the courses that currently lack good signage will just not host PDGA events.

In a lot of ways, this site promotes what you're advocating. Good signage tends to be a common pro in reviews. When courses strive to get good reviews, signage can be a good focus point.

If you have issues with this at local courses, offer to step in and help raise money to get good signage in place. Take ownership if you don't like something!

 

[Nuke]

Well, one way to address the issue is not make it illegal to use a device to tell how far away you are. I'm not advocating wholesale changes or upgrades, not even complaining. Just stating that it makes more sense to me for range finders to be legal. Ideally, to me, you wouldn't need signage particularly or anything expensive, I'm not talking about tee distance, but approach distance. You'd adopt something like ball golf. Golfers know a red marker (stake, brick, plaque, etc) means 100 yards, white 150yards, blue 200 yards. It's a lot easier to tell if you're 50 feet behind the 200 foot market than 250 feet from the basket. Just an observation since the topic was brought up, it's not a pressing issue to me.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A Junior player at Worlds was reported where his Mom was using GPS on a smartphone to determine distances to the pin for his shots. They must have GPS mapped each of his courses in advance. No penalty because the marshal simply made a general announcement before the next round that GPS and rangefinders weren't allowed. So the behavior was never seen by an official.

 

[iacas]

I find this interesting coming from golf where "distance to the hole" is considered public knowledge and is thus allowed. It's curious to me that distance measuring devices ("DMDs" in golf) are illegal in DG.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Rangefinders are not legal in ball golf during competition UNLESS there's a local rule allowing it (see 14-3 b).

 

[Nuke]

Ball golf courses are pretty well marked for distances also though.