[Gateway] Medium Wizards No Longer PDGA Legal?

[Cgkdisc]

When they were weighing players' discs for the Japan Open, they allowed a 2g tolerance overage so discs at 152 were allowed. So I would suspect a similar tolerance might be allowed by a marshal or TD on any suspected overweight call.

 

[DanJon]

^i have some brand new medium wizards and some brand new kc pro aviars. also some brand new flat stiff champ firebirds. the medium wizard is really stiff. but so are the innova discs. probably about the same if not more than the medium wizard.

granted this is not a scientific test, but chances are (and using common sense) the innova discs would not pass the flex test. the same flex test that apparently now makes medium wizards illegal.

so why arent the innova discs being discontinued?

 

[Cgkdisc]

As I've pointed out, someone has to report a problem for the PDGA to test it. No one has done so. Contact Tech Standards Committee on the PDGA Contact link: http://www.pdga.com/contact

If you wish to complain about the rule or policy in general, contact the PDGA office not Tech Standards

 

[doctor professor]

As I've pointed out, someone has to report a problem for the PDGA to test it. No one has done so.

Well if that's all it takes, you better believe someone out there is just pissed enough to do it. Fairs fair. Sit back and grab your popcorn

 

[jrawk]

random thought #1: I always wondered how the flexibility of discs was enforced after new molds were pdga approved. Maybe a bit naive of me, i assumed plastic blends were approved seperately from molds. Ie. Gold Line was tested seperately from opto line seperately from EZE etc etc.

random thought #2: There is a strain of brick hard Pinnacle Rivals and Icon Ghosts (as others have mentioned) that would surely fail. I have them.. they are just as stiff as the medium wizards. They fly great and have such a clean release probably due to the lack of grip-warp like soft discs have. At first i didn't like the stiffness, but now that i'm used to it, they fly so very cleanly i love them.

random thought #3: Entirely speculation, but i'm sure the Flywood discs probably put up a few red flags when their discs were denied by the pdga flexibility tests.

random thought #4: The flexibility rule should just be thrown away and in stead open the door to new materials to be used for discs, not limited to just plastic and wood.

 

[Halcón]

Don't have time to read the whole thread. Why is this being done? Is it a safety issue? Rock hard putters are not ok, but premium plastic wide rimmed drivers are ok, and deemed safe?

Let's just all play disc golf with Blowflys, Gumputts, and Vibram Soft.

 

[jenb]

Well the thing that is going to make this all interesting is the new PDGA rule this year that basically says it's enough for someone on your card to QUESTION the legality of your disc to make it illegal to throw again until a TD or marshall says otherwise. So if someone questions the stiffness of your disc 2 holes into the round you can't throw it again until you bring the disc to the TD to inspect and make the call whether or not the disc is legal.

The rule doesn't say the disc is illegal until subsequently approved by the TD. It says unless subsequently approved by the TD. To me and a lot of other people, that means you are put on notice that if you continue to throw the disc, and the TD later rules it illegal, then you take a bunch of penalty strokes and risk disqualification. But if the TD rules it legal, you take no penalty strokes for using it after the legality was questioned.

I think the odds of the rule interpretation playing out the other way are approximately zero. It's such a ridiculous result to interpret it as "until", and a well known member of the RC is on record saying they just rephrased the existing rule, without any intent of changing the rule this year.

 

[notroman]

The way I read it is that it's illegal the moment someone questions it. "Is illegal". That's it. Unless subsequently it's approved by the TD - so you can go get the TD after someone calls you on it and prove him otherwise. Then it's no longer illegal. It doesn't make sense the other way unless people on the card start tracking how many times you threw that disc throughout the round.

 

[jenb]

If the disc legitimately has PDGA Approved on it, it's legal by default. But anyone can still challenge a specific disc for not meeting the specs whether weight, flex or cracks, etc.

So my turbo putt is legal?

 

[jenb]

The way I read it is that it's illegal the moment someone questions it. "Is illegal". That's it. Unless subsequently it's approved by the TD - so you can go get the TD after someone calls you on it and prove him otherwise. Then it's no longer illegal. It doesn't make sense the other way unless people on the card start tracking how many times you threw that disc throughout the round.

If it's more times than they can count, and then it turns out to be illegal, then I'd venture a guess that a disqualification will result.

 

[jenb]

I don't believe there's a lower limit on how soft a disc can be.

I want a disc made of kush ball material.

 

[Cgkdisc]

So my turbo putt is legal?

Good catch. There are one or two other discs where the manufacturer inappropriately marked them as Approved.

 

[ejvogie]

Good catch. There are one or two other discs where the manufacturer inappropriately marked them as Approved.

What if it was manufactured before it was retroactively deemed illegal? IIRC the Turbo Putt USED to be legal.

-edit- I could be thinking of some other disc made by Quest. Wheel perhaps?

 

[notroman]

What if it was manufactured before it was retroactively deemed illegal? IIRC the Turbo Putt USED to be legal.

Yep, Turbo Putt was approved then someone raised question on what made a disc a disc, so PDGA re-defined what constitutes as a disc and the new rules made it illegal. They allowed the disc to keep it's PDGA approved status for a year or so before making it officially illegal.

 

[nawanda37]

Fortunately for most the weight ink on the Gateway putters wears off pretty quick.

Also fortunately for most I've noticed their putters often weigh less than they're marked, so even if a scale gets involved everything should be okay.

This was my first thought too. What doesn't wear off will be removed, on all 18 of my Wizards.

I have a 178 g9i that I will be using in tournament play. It's marked 175. It'll be re-inked as a 174.

My real name isn't attached to this profile is it?

 

[plex]

i want a disc made out of gew so i can just roll it into a ball and throw it at the basket

 

[Lurp Nuts]

perhaps gateway will start "accidently" releasing batches of really really firm soft wizards. just blame it on their inconsistency.

 

[smyith]

random thought #1: I always wondered how the flexibility of discs was enforced after new molds were pdga approved. Maybe a bit naive of me, i assumed plastic blends were approved separately from molds. Ie. Gold Line was tested separately from opto line separately from EZE etc etc.

i dont want this going unnoticed

*spelling errors fixed for you

 

[tbird888]

I'm saying report it when you see it. There's no way the PDGA is capable of patrolling the scene alone. Even if Jason might suspect a disc, he tries to be neutral and either test them randomly as much as possible so he's personally not see na picking on a manufacturer or wait to check a disc model that's been reported.

As I've pointed out, someone has to report a problem for the PDGA to test it. No one has done so. Contact Tech Standards Committee on the PDGA Contact link: http://www.pdga.com/contact

If you wish to complain about the rule or policy in general, contact the PDGA office not Tech Standards

"We are the Professional Disc Golf Association. As the governing body of the sport we make the rules, and we enforce them...when someone tattles."
It is the governing body of the sport's job to enforce the rules they make in regards to manufacturers' products, not the players and TDs. Rules regarding tourney play is one thing, but this discussion is about equipment.

Things the PDGA has to know:

• Disc companies mold their discs from plastic which is pretty much always different with each bulk shipment they receive
• Discs mold up differently with differing plastics, thus changing the specifications with which the mold was approved
• Disc firmness is almost always different from those differing plastics

This is fairly common knowledge to more serious disc golfers on here. Why is it ignored by the governing body?

This moves further into my questions you've dismissed addressed in regards to Innova's plus molds not requiring recertification despite being new molds and not production differences, the Destroyer/Vulcan hybrid that was sold under the Destroyer's name without any consequences, the 5 different (at least) Roc molds Innova currently markets as separate discs without needing recertification (thus implying they are different and not replacements of a worn out mold), and many other issues that have been popping up lately. If the Innova PDGA were more proactive about enforcing the rules they've established, this kind of stuff wouldn't be an issue.

Innova owns the PDGA....your stiff firebirds are safe.

This is very telling. Within the last couple years, I'd dare say that Innova has skirted more manufacturing rules than all the other companies combined and remained completely immune. I guess no one told on them...I wonder who told on Gateway?

 

[notroman]

As far as I know they just approve the molds. There are no restrictions on plastic and nobody sends in discs for approval again every time they get new plastic.