my tunnel shots and glide misunderstandings

[bents]

Hi all, I've got a couple questions. First, what is the definition of a tunnel shot? I thought it mean that there were overhanging branches you need to get under. But then I think some people are talking about having trees on the left and right, forcing a very straight shot, but not necessarily with overhanging branches. Or maybe it's some combination of the two.

My question is about with overhanging branches, so I'll call that a "ceiling shot" for now. To be specific, lets say there is a branch 10 feet above ground, 40 feet from the tee, and you need to get under it, and go more or less straight from there, as far as possible.

People on this forum have recommended midranges for tunnel shots. When I try my (domey) roc for a ceiling shot, it falls out of the air early. This seems strange to me, when people say that domey midranges have lots of glide. What DOES work well is either my teebird or TL, depending on whether I want it to go left/straight/right after. They go straight under the ceiling and maintain altitude, and even get a little extra lift when they flex before fading, and go about 100 feet further than a roc.

So it seems like a teebird has more glide than a roc. I've also read here that rocs need "more height to glide" which seems oxymoronic. I've experienced that rocs do better when thrown higher, but it seems like that means that it has LESS glide, because it needs more altitude from the throw, instead of getting altitude from glide... There's something I'm not getting! :?: :? :?:

 

[JHern]

First, what is the definition of a tunnel shot?

Come on man, this is English, everybody knows what a tunnel is...

The hole below isn't strictly a tunnel because it doesn't have overhanging branches the entire way (only the early pine branches and the lone oak branch sticking out half way), although it plays like a tunnel.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Slower discs glide farther when you throw them higher. I can throw a wizard 300' if I have a completely open ceiling to work with because the glide and lack of fade make that possible. Faster discs such as a teebird (in this case) glide as well but will fall out of the sky quicker due to them losing speed.

In the case of a ceiling shot like you are talking about, the speed of the teebird allows it to go farther. The teebird has good glide but doesn't have the glide a roc does. The low ceiling means you can't throw the roc at the best height to get the maximum glide/distance out of it. The teebird can penetrate farther faster which allows it to go farther.

You have combined speed and glide in your thought process which is why throwing a slower disc higher makes it seem like it has less glide when it fact that shows the disc has more glide. Throw an ultimate disc really high in the air and watch the thing glide a long way slowly.

 

[bents]

The hole below isn't strictly a tunnel because it doesn't have overhanging branches the entire way (only the lone oak branch sticking out half way)...

Ok, so a tunnel has some ceiling, and stuff on both the left and right. If the tunnel curves way left or right (like many tunnels outside of disc golf do), do you still call it a tunnel shot? For a tunnel curving way left, for example, I'd want something overstable--I don't think this is what most people are talking about when they recommend a buzzz.

Anyway, your picture looks basically like what I'm describing. I'd have trouble getting a roc under that branch and still get much distance...

 

[keltik1]

what you are experiencing with the TB/TL is what I would call gyroscopic push combined with faster airspeed velocity. JHern can explain it better since is a professor of physics (right?).

The midranges people usually suggest for these tunnel type shots are the Comet and the Fuse. The Comet has a good amount of glide mainly coming from the fact it is 22cm in diameter. The Fuse is just glidey, not sure why but it is. Yes of course you can throw straighter slower drivers like the TB/TL but they tend to fade at the end for most folks. The Comet or Fuse tend to fall straight at the end of the flight if thrown properly. If you do wish to use a driver in this instance I cannot recommend the Leopard enough. the JLS or XL are also suitable. There are also many other straight flying mids out there. Comet and Fuse are just the most popular options.

and of course like Frank said you do get more forward penetration with drivers on lower lines. sometimes you have to throw a driver. and if the tunnel does curve you have to shape the shot accordingly.

 

[Frank Delicious]

I always disc up on tunnel shots to use the speed of the disc to get better forward penetration while keeping the disc lower to the ground

 

[Allsport1313]

People probably throw slower discs in tunnels because they are much more controllable. I personally am more concerned with a disc's fade than its glide in a tunnel shot. Difference in glide generally isn't going to be night and day like fade can be.

So my two cents is, unless your Teebird and Roc are pretty beat up, you could indirectly get more glide by throwing something less stable. Looking at JHerns tunnel pic above, that is pretty much a point-and-shoot Buzzz or Leopard shot for me. I know some people love them Comets.

 

[Moops]

Is throwing a comet with a lower ceiling really common? I feel like they are much more suited for hallway shots so you can put some air under them and still have them finish straight.

 

[keltik1]

My dumbass would try it but a Leopard or similar would probably do better.

 

[Frank Delicious]

I don't throw my comets on low tunnel shots.

 

[bents]

At my local course there's a lot of live oak trees which can grow pretty horizontally. There's a couple holes with ceilings closer to the tee and a little lower than the picture above, but clearer down the fairway.

I think maybe the problem with getting rocs under them has more to do with nose angle than with glide. What frank said about distance penetrating is making some sense too... midranges need to be higher because they're slower, and need to be in the air longer, not "so they can glide."

Also what Moop said about comets being good for "hallway shots" is my experience. These are three really different problems to solve: hallways, tunnels, and ceilings. Do you guys agree that midranges are best for hallways (with high or no ceiling), and that drivers are better for low ceilings (with wiggle room left or right)?

 

[Jewdy]

I love my Comets for hallway shots but for tunnel shots I like to hyzer-flip a leo or river.

 

[JHern]

Ok, so a tunnel has some ceiling, and stuff on both the left and right. If the tunnel curves way left or right (like many tunnels outside of disc golf do), do you still call it a tunnel shot?

Yes, just like rail and road tunnels. Same meaning.

For a tunnel curving way left, for example, I'd want something overstable--I don't think this is what most people are talking about when they recommend a buzzz.

This depends on the curvature of the tunnel. The over-stable disc is better for a shorter radius of curvature, the under-stable disc is better for a large radius of curvature (but a more difficult shot). A stable disc like the Buzzz would be in between these two extremes.

Anyway, your picture looks basically like what I'm describing. I'd have trouble getting a roc under that branch and still get much distance...

This is a tough hole, a little over 400', and even the top pros are sometimes thwarted here, picking up a bogey. Although I've also seen some who threw pure all the way down the tunnel (Roadrunner was the usual choice for Innova pros).

 

[Allsport1313]

This is a tough hole, a little over 400'

Oh wow, I was thinking it was like.... 275. Definitely not a Buzzz shot for my noodle then.

 

[Jerbob]

Looks perfect for a buzzz shot if you would like to keep your disc in the fairway and take a good 3 or an easy 4. Depends on how thick the brush is off fairway and how good your get out of trouble shot is.

 

[Allsport1313]

gogo River

 

[JHern]

Looks perfect for a buzzz shot if you would like to keep your disc in the fairway and take a good 3 or an easy 4. Depends on how thick the brush is off fairway and how good your get out of trouble shot is.

Yeah, when the pin is in that position, I often throw a Buzzz up the gut and simply try to stay in the fairway, lots of tree jails to either side. Then easier to get under oak branch for an upshot using a Classic Roc or putter for the par 3. The only time I birdied it was with a beat Pro Wraith.

 

[bents]

If the branch was 40 feet closer and 2 feet lower would you still use the buzz, or do you think you'd get more distance past it with an understable driver?

 

[JHern]

If the branch was 40 feet closer and 2 feet lower would you still use the buzz, or do you think you'd get more distance past it with an understable driver?

That would make the hole much less fun, but I might still lay up in that case, too. Courses like this really test your upshot game, you often have to fall back on your ability to make tough second shots to stay at par.