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New Feldberg clinic
- Thread starter 1hicat
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Good stuff, except for the "keep your head down" part. It has nothing to do with your head, but with how you brace your spine through your foot/leg to the ground.
Wiggins Jr said:
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AzteC
Eagle Member
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I rewatched that wiggins video, and he is saying to pivot on your toes and not the ball.. he definitely doesn't do that on his full power throws. That was another thing the feldberg video got me to relook at, my plant foot. I would always land toe first, then almost get to flat but not quite when I would pull throw. So I started making sure my plant foot was flat footed before pulling through, and I definitely noticed and could feel the transfer of energy more from my lower body to my arm.
Quinntastic
Birdie Member
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Touched on a lot of what I've been working on the last few weeks. Good stuff
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ColonelDracula
Par Member
I just can't help to think that these throwing styles basically inferred here are for smaller to medium builds and/or weights.
I can't throw like this though. I need so much movement just to stay balanced, I can't drop heel and twist foot. I think the (very) high shoulder and elbow are required for taller & bigger players because they can't twist well (like Avery Jenkins with the high shoulder and elbow).
A local pro once recommended I do that, and it worked for me very well. I cannot believe how easily the frisbee can go further with a high shoulder. I feel like I'm merely releasing the disc in the air rather than trying to 'rip' it.
Koling throws like Dave is discussing, but Jeremy just might be a lean enough frame to be able to.
Do any other larger players have to do this? (I just don't hear it mentioned and I wanted others thoughts on this).
I can't throw like this though. I need so much movement just to stay balanced, I can't drop heel and twist foot. I think the (very) high shoulder and elbow are required for taller & bigger players because they can't twist well (like Avery Jenkins with the high shoulder and elbow).
A local pro once recommended I do that, and it worked for me very well. I cannot believe how easily the frisbee can go further with a high shoulder. I feel like I'm merely releasing the disc in the air rather than trying to 'rip' it.
Koling throws like Dave is discussing, but Jeremy just might be a lean enough frame to be able to.
Do any other larger players have to do this? (I just don't hear it mentioned and I wanted others thoughts on this).
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UhhNegative
Eagle Member
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You don't need "more movement" to stay balanced. If anything, you probably need less. Watch the center torso (spine) of any far thrower, it pretty much stays in place during the throw. Elbow positioning should be pretty high, but obviously there are players like Will Schusterick who throw with a bit lower elbow.
When I think of bigger players (in terms of weight) I think of Jordan Castro. Check his form out here in this video. Pretty much the same as most pros in terms of the basics.
When I think of bigger players (in terms of weight) I think of Jordan Castro. Check his form out here in this video. Pretty much the same as most pros in terms of the basics.
billyjacko
Eagle Member
I was shocked by this and the part about rolling to the outside of the heel. I would like to here your opinion on that. It seems like the weight has to go there when the hip clears, but it seems like I've read you saying otherwise.
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The outside edge of the front heel is the part that wears out first on my shoes, I believe Dave's is the same as we both pivot on the heel and both of us have crappy ankles. He was talking about McBeth and Eagle and some other newer top pros rolling more to the outside edge toward the toes and still able to generate a lot of power, but also not sure how they aren't tearing their ankles - which I agree with. They aren't really pivoting on their heels, it's more flat footed pivot toward the toes and torque.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Lumberjack was asking about this and I was just about to make a video to show it, but the takeaway is that the direction of push greatly affects your ability to release the plant foot to pivot.
RHBH Examples assuming good posture and stacked noes over knee over toes.
1. Direction of Push: left of brace (shifting to the left) - Response: you will end up on the ball of your foot to pivot.
2. Direction of Push: dead center on brace (shifting center) - Response: you will end up on the instep, pivot might not be free/easy without actively lifting toes.
3. Direction of Push: right of brace (shifting from behind) - Response: pressure goes instep to heel with free/easy pivot without actively lifting toes.
I'd also point out that throwing lots of repetitive field work drives from grass or lumpy footing can be rough on your ankles/knee if it's restricting your plant foot from swinging open. I've taken to using concrete spots and throwing into grass whenever possible for fieldwork.
RHBH Examples assuming good posture and stacked noes over knee over toes.
1. Direction of Push: left of brace (shifting to the left) - Response: you will end up on the ball of your foot to pivot.
2. Direction of Push: dead center on brace (shifting center) - Response: you will end up on the instep, pivot might not be free/easy without actively lifting toes.
3. Direction of Push: right of brace (shifting from behind) - Response: pressure goes instep to heel with free/easy pivot without actively lifting toes.
I'd also point out that throwing lots of repetitive field work drives from grass or lumpy footing can be rough on your ankles/knee if it's restricting your plant foot from swinging open. I've taken to using concrete spots and throwing into grass whenever possible for fieldwork.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
A couple of things. Feldberg isn't describing the only methodology, he's describing his. Clearly it works. The reason the foot spins is because at the unwind your power comes from your torso, not your arm. As you torque your torso your foot has to turn with the body or your knee will dislocate. Whether you spin on to the side, spin on the ball or spin on the toes depends on your personal style. As long as your power is coming from the torso you're doing it right.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I disagree with this Lyle, because you can generate a ton of power from your torso and have it not line up with the line you're throwing your disc on.
Shift your weight on a different vector than your line and you lose substantial power.
This is one of the best visualizations of "shifting from behind". Will's push is directly in line with the trajectory of his shot, which pushes to the right of his plant foot's location.
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lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I wouldn't say we disagree, rather that we are starting at different points. When I first started reading about this stuff fifteen years ago, the experienced guys discussed power transfer starting from the ground up.
Run up
Legs - including weight shift
Torso
Shoulders
Arm
Snap
They argued that you were transferring power from the ground up through the body to the snap. I have no doubt that you are correct in your assertation that you need that weight shift, but that wasn't what I was attempting to address. That said, let's finish the topic.
If you have all the weight shift in the world, and no torso rotation, your throw is gonna suck big time. On the other hand, I see many throws that have much less weight shift, that are more torso driven, that are quite accurate and go far enough (please see Paul McBeth's fairway drives for example). Yep, to get real distance, you need that weight transfer. But for that energy to be utilized, it has to transfer power to the torso, from there to the shoulders, and from there to the arm.
That is the way that it was written, thus shall it be!
Whether the old school guys were correct isn't necessarily important. I personally agree with them but know that such conclusions are tough to prove.
The point I was specifically and inelegantly addressing was the foot movement on the lead foot. We had three different views presented. Dave's, you need to roll the foot, and the two alternative things we see, a heel rotation, and a toe rotation. There seemed to be some thinking that only one was correct. Dave said it, thus shall it be. I disagree. I've seen all three, spread amongst some of the best throwers in the world. It seems to me that the foot rotation isn't part of getting power, or accuracy, rather that it is the inevitable consequence of torso rotation. If you spin your torso and don't turn your knee, you're gonna tear something. The foot turn just happens. Whether you roll the foot, heel turn, or toe turn isn't important IMO, but is a consequence of your specific weight shift, or body movement.
Run up
Legs - including weight shift
Torso
Shoulders
Arm
Snap
They argued that you were transferring power from the ground up through the body to the snap. I have no doubt that you are correct in your assertation that you need that weight shift, but that wasn't what I was attempting to address. That said, let's finish the topic.
If you have all the weight shift in the world, and no torso rotation, your throw is gonna suck big time. On the other hand, I see many throws that have much less weight shift, that are more torso driven, that are quite accurate and go far enough (please see Paul McBeth's fairway drives for example). Yep, to get real distance, you need that weight transfer. But for that energy to be utilized, it has to transfer power to the torso, from there to the shoulders, and from there to the arm.
That is the way that it was written, thus shall it be!
Whether the old school guys were correct isn't necessarily important. I personally agree with them but know that such conclusions are tough to prove.The point I was specifically and inelegantly addressing was the foot movement on the lead foot. We had three different views presented. Dave's, you need to roll the foot, and the two alternative things we see, a heel rotation, and a toe rotation. There seemed to be some thinking that only one was correct. Dave said it, thus shall it be. I disagree. I've seen all three, spread amongst some of the best throwers in the world. It seems to me that the foot rotation isn't part of getting power, or accuracy, rather that it is the inevitable consequence of torso rotation. If you spin your torso and don't turn your knee, you're gonna tear something. The foot turn just happens. Whether you roll the foot, heel turn, or toe turn isn't important IMO, but is a consequence of your specific weight shift, or body movement.
I thought that the foot rotation was the result of clearing your hip (extending the leg)... If your torso is causing your foot to rotate, then you aren't clearing your hip correctly.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Now you're getting technical. :thmbup: My hip and torso rotation (I'm old) are essentially the same. So you're most likely correct. If we take as the torso everything from the hips up to the shoulder, that rotation causes the foot to rotate. The video I've watched hasn't allowed me to distinguish hip moving the foot from the torso. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've not found it. If you have some video of that I'd love to see it, one way or the other. Thanks!
46YearOldSlinger
Double Eagle Member
I've seen the term "clearing the hip" used numerous times in this forum. What exactly does this mean?
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
BTW Mo, you pointed out that I left hip rotation before core rotation out of my litany. That is typically how it was written. See, you get old and your mind wanders.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I always heard that your hips open up and took that to mean they face not back or to the side, but more down the fairway. This usage is new to me also.
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