Not getting Tomahawks to flip/turn

[Adampowzki]

Hi,
I played Ultimate for a year before starting to play DG. Now I have a problem when it comes to throwing tomahawks, they wont turn 180 degrees and land on the other edge of the disc. They simply glide and land upside down. I can throw thumbers just fine, that`s why I think it`s something stuck from ultimate.
Anyone have the same problem? Should I throw US or OS? What did you do to fix it?
Thanks in advance

 

[BogeyNoMore]

From my experience throwing tommies/thumbers, understable fairways tend to rollover and pancake (slide on their tops) easiest. My FLX Challenger doesn't seem to execute that barrell roll, and typically becomes a roller. Throwing them with mids feels strange to me, so I hardly ever do. Curious to see what others say.
opcorn:

 

[cblanch4]

Same Problem, I had to start putting more angle on my tomahawks, Have them start flatter, less up and down should do the trick. My thumbers are just fine as well

 

[thatdirtykid]

It may be an angle of release thing. It took a lot of work for me to get tommys to flip all the way over. I feel like I have to throw the disc with the trajectory almost over my head.

In baseball I was a side arm pitcher, and its much more natural for me to throw with my arm more outward, which works better for thumbers.
On the bright side, thumbers are much more valuable to me, because of their left to right trajectory, where a tommy moving right to left can be achieved with a spike hyzer or a grenade. Especially if I need to get up and over a high obstacle and a tommy would be a good choice for the left to right trajectory I will occasionally (its been a long while) throw a grenade grip shot (thumb in rim, held like a backhand) but on a sky roller line with an overstable disc. Its flight is very similar to a tommy.

 

[eric40817]

For tommys I throw either my Champ Eagle, Opto XXX, or champ Banshee. All of them flip a bit differently due to stability changes, but I can get all to flip over and either spike in the ground or slide. Throwing a tommy I come over the top (obviously), but almost a little more angled over my head. Having learned how to throw these with those disc, theres a few holes where I instantly when from consistent bogey to consistent birdies.

 

[eric40817]

It may be an angle of release thing. It took a lot of work for me to get tommys to flip all the way over. I feel like I have to throw the disc with the trajectory almost over my head.

In baseball I was a side arm pitcher, and its much more natural for me to throw with my arm more outward, which works better for thumbers.
On the bright side, thumbers are much more valuable to me, because of their left to right trajectory, where a tommy moving right to left can be achieved with a spike hyzer or a grenade. Especially if I need to get up and over a high obstacle and a tommy would be a good choice for the left to right trajectory I will occasionally (its been a long while) throw a grenade grip shot (thumb in rim, held like a backhand) but on a sky roller line with an overstable disc. Its flight is very similar to a tommy.

I was a pitcher, but most of my baseball life was as a centerfield - thats where I attribute my over the top arm slot too. As a righty batter though, Im so used to exploding my hips to the left. Took a lot of adjustment to learn to get the hips moving to the right properly

 

[Improbably]

Try not throwing tomahawks.

 

[eric40817]

Try not throwing tomahawks.

why?

 

[ejvogie]

IMO, try using something more understable. When I threw OH (before wrecking my shoulder) I was thumbing Firebirds and Whippets with decent success, but could only get a beat Sidewinder to roll over on a tomahawk. IIRC, the more overstable discs have a tendency to perform their barrel roll at a slower pace, which is why I tried the sidewinder for my tommies.

 

[slowplastic]

IMO, try using something more understable. When I threw OH (before wrecking my shoulder) I was thumbing Firebirds and Whippets with decent success, but could only get a beat Sidewinder to roll over on a tomahawk. IIRC, the more overstable discs have a tendency to perform their barrel roll at a slower pace, which is why I tried the sidewinder for my tommies.

I don't do much OH shots, but this is how I feel too. I'll use more OS for thumbers and a different disc for tomahawks.

Thumbers you're already on the angle towards the direction of the disc roll...where on a tomahawk if you throw at 1:00 arm position (12:00 is directly overhead) the disc has to rotate much further counterclockwise.

What I think is also a factor but I'm not certain, is that I believe I get a cleaner release on a tomahawk usually since it's my FH grip rather than some weird thumb in grip, and that causes less torque and less roll as well. I'm not sure about that, but occasionally I'll try to throw a tomahawk and the disc just stays vertical the whole time, when other times that same disc would roll. Could be just worse arm speed or snap on that particular throw too...like I said I don't do them all the time.

 

[Jax11]

Glad to see someone brought up the clock face. If you take 12:00 as the disc being perfectly straight up and down. Releasing the discs on more of an inward angle will cause a tomahawk to flip faster. Try releasing with the disc angled at 11:00 or even 10:00 and it should roll faster.

If we are equating to baseball its almost a screwball type feel, IMO

Understable discs will get a faster roll and they will also pan more left to right. Overstable discs will do a slower roll and will have a tighter pattern.

 

[Timeetyo]

Glad to see someone brought up the clock face. If you take 12:00 as the disc being perfectly straight up and down. Releasing the discs on more of an inward angle will cause a tomahawk to flip faster. Try releasing with the disc angled at 11:00 or even 10:00 and it should roll faster.

If we are equating to baseball its almost a screwball type feel, IMO

Understable discs will get a faster roll and they will also pan more left to right. Overstable discs will do a slower roll and will have a tighter pattern.

I have this issue as well, and I think it is mostly due to the release angle. I just can't manage to release past vertical (actually closer to 1). It just doesn't feel right to me. Feels so unnatural.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I just can't manage to release past vertical (actually closer to 1). It just doesn't feel right to me. Feels so unnatural.

Its odd and uncomfortable, I just don't rely on tommys.

 

[Jax11]

I have this issue as well, and I think it is mostly due to the release angle. I just can't manage to release past vertical (actually closer to 1). It just doesn't feel right to me. Feels so unnatural.

A trick I found to make it a little more comfortable, at least for me, if you can manage to tilt your shoulders it can help you achieve the 11:00 release point. For a right handed thrower, try to drop your left shoulder. This way the disc will always be perpendicular to your shoulder plane.

Another way to help get a feel for throwing them like this is to stand directly behind a tree in a straddle stance. Lean out to left and throw a tomahawk to the left side of the tree. This should more or less force your shoulders into the tilted position I was talking about.

I caution though, I throw tomahawks mostly for placement shots or get out of trouble shots and I am never throwing full power. I do not know if this could hurt you throwing at full power or more frequently than a couple times per round.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Something less stable, and faster. It's just a forehand.

 

[knettles]

Adjusting your stance to get the desired angle works, but is really difficult in my opinion. I think it's alot easier to just use an understable disc as many others have mentioned. I throw my MVP Inertia for tommies and an Lat XXX for thumbers. They're at completely opposite ends of the stability spectrum, but they fly similarly (mirrored) because I'm releasing both at around 1:00.

 

[hook_nuts]

Tight grip, straight over top 12:00, snap hard (definitely need to follow through). Any disc will flip. Add a crow hop for distance.

 

[Cyclosuo]

I can throw thumbers out to about 300 ft' with over-stable plastic- I use the Boss mostly. It gets one good flip and lands on a roller for an extra 20 ft' roll that mimics a RHBH roller. I never understood using under-stable discs that flip a bunch of times in the air. I prefer 1 arc that I can control. The trick is to spin the disc downward HARD at release but have it high enough so that it doesn't crash and burn early. It's a great tool for tight fairways, easily repeatable, especially on holes that go right to left for RHBH.

 

[clard]

I never understood using under-stable discs that flip a bunch of times in the air. I prefer 1 arc that I can control.

Huh? Understable discs don't flip a bunch of times. They flip once just like OS discs, but they do it faster.

 

[ILackDiscance]

The best OH disc on the market is the ESP Discraft Venom. It's OOP. but I've had mine for a long time. It simply flies better and does a roll with no change in angle, whereas my Force or Nuke OS do.