Overpowered Shots

[GRHE]

Hello all. I'm new here but have been reading for a while. Also a relatively new player. I just achieved a benchmark distance this week with a 320' throw with a beat up DX wraith which I was proud of but in the process I learned something besides a new distance.

I've had the feeling for a while that I should disc down a bit and focus on getting more D out of my mid-range discs but I have been finding that, while not maxing out a disc like the wraith, I am still getting more D from it than my cheetah. A startling discovery to myself was that as I have begun throwing my discs faster they were beginning to turn over on me. I had chalked it up to a bad habit of throwing anny but with the breakthrough in distance a few days ago I finally realized that I am overpowering my cheetah. To fill in the blank for me I also just happened across the disc distance chart (a huge help by the way) on another thread and it was written right there in plain sight: Discs which are underpowered tend to act more stable while discs which are overpowered will act more understable than their designed flight characteristics.

I've misunderstood this point until now and happened to see a comment in the recent Nuke 171 thread that seemed to misrepresent this concept so I thought it might be a good one for discussion. I haven't gotten to get back out and give my cheetah some more throws but I'm looking forward to taking some steam off and stretching it out to its proper distance. I've just started to feel some snap and develop some form but it was a good feeling to realize that I am actually throwing some of my discs too hard.

 

[fanter]

You could just throw your Cheetah on a hyzer with the same power and let it flip, or power down on it like you mentioned. Both are worth practicing, and both will help you achieve better disc control.

 

[GRHE]

So I got out and threw a round yesterday. I am happy to say I posted my best score and I feel like I'm understanding more about why my disc is flying the way it is. I played a very tight, short technical course so I didn't get to stretch any shots out but I did find some further insight into my cheetah. More than overpowering it I am finding that it is becoming increasingly understable. Unless I throw it on a hyzer line it turns right almost every time. This is a good thing to know but also a bit frustrating when this is my only short range disc. Getting ready to invest in a Roc or Buzz but leaning towards the Roc.

I do have a question after all of the new insight though. Is stability the same thing as OAT? I still don't understand the physics as well as I would like to but it seems to me that when we talk about HSS and LSS that these refer to the force generated on a disc by the off center lift force experienced by the disc. There are a couple of definitions of torque that float around as well but an off center lift force sounds a lot like off axis torque and I'm wondering if we don't throw these terms around loosely enough to be talking about roughly the same thing. Anyway, I'll do some more forum digging and searching for myself as well but this is where I sit. Thanks.

 

[jnecessary]

I'm not sure what you mean by off center lift force. But, OAT is not stability. Throwing with excessive Off Axis Torque can mask stability, as in make you think that a stable to over stable disc is less stable than it really is.

HSS is referring to the tendency of the disc to fly right, left or straight at high speeds, and LSS is referencing how much the disc "hooks" up at the end of the flight when it begins to slow down. If you look at a couple disc selection charts these terms make much more sense.

http://www.innovadiscs.com/downloads/disc-selection-charts.html
http://www.discraft.com/stability.html
http://gdstour.com/documents_2011/flight_chart_print_2.pdf

Also, discussion on OAT.
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5792

There are a bunch of resources in the Technique forum to check out.

 

[GRHE]

Yep, that thread helps a lot, thanks. I think I can hash it out on my own from here. Thanks for the responses