Am I the only one who doesn't see the need for an uber overstable mid??? When would you need this type of shot that a overstable driver wouldn't work? The only mid I carry is a buzzz, and if I need an overstable mid range distance shot, I manipulate the buzzz or throw a firebird at reduced power to achieve the proper angle. Maybe in a huge wind, but I still don't get it.
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Overstable mid-range?
- Thread starter jamsisjams
- Start date
K-Dog 19
Birdie Member
Hhmmm, good point Glock. What is the point of a Mid that is good in the wind? I bet you could just use like a Banshee (Predator) or something like that not thrown with 100% power.
MDR_3000
Eagle Member
the reason I don't use a driver for shots like that. Too much touch needed. I'll probably end up throwing too short or too long too many times.
But I do use a Speed Demon for forehand approaches. (I usually play a skip approach)
But I do use a Speed Demon for forehand approaches. (I usually play a skip approach)
I guess I am weird, but to me an overstable driver requires much less "touch". Since a driver with less power should have less glide than a mid, to me it is more predictable and easier to spike. Also, adding another mid is just one more mold and disc in your bag. I would rather learn how to use a disc I am already carrying. Different strokes I guess.
Bradley Walker
* Ace Member *
discmonkey42 said:
Bullshit.
black udder
* Ace Member *
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I play a course that is has most holes around 300' (give or take 20').
For me, it's a perfect midrange distance. I can throw a midrange with a full stroke and not expect to drive the disc 30' past the hole. Also, with a midrange, I'm not expecting a huge skip either. If I throw the line, then it should do what I want and I don't get too many unexpected results or crazy skips, etc.
With a driver, if you choose a stable disc and don't throw it hard enough, then it cuts too fast and skips off target. If you get a good pull by accident, then you can overshoot the hole - and if it's supposed to be a hyzer shot, you're way off because you're going straight or turning over instead of getting the hyzer.
While I won't disagree with folks who can manipulate their drivers to do what they want, coming down to a midrange/control disc is more in line with ball golf philosophy. Play a full stroke and drop down a club. It's not always applicable, but for me, I've taken probably 8 holes out of 18 and I use a midrange now instead of a driver.
The buzz is a great example. If you have a hole that's dead straight - 275' or so, a buzz is a great choice. Throw it straight at the hole and worst case (if you throw it straight) is the little fade at the end or a little turnover. If you throw a driver perfectly, you have to worry about going past 275' and skipping or just coming in at the right spot and then skipping away. If you throw a turnover shot, then you still have to throw the right hyzer angle to bring it up flat, but not turnover too much or drive by the hole -- skill shots either way, but less punishment on a screw up with the midrange.
Just my 2 cents
For me, it's a perfect midrange distance. I can throw a midrange with a full stroke and not expect to drive the disc 30' past the hole. Also, with a midrange, I'm not expecting a huge skip either. If I throw the line, then it should do what I want and I don't get too many unexpected results or crazy skips, etc.
With a driver, if you choose a stable disc and don't throw it hard enough, then it cuts too fast and skips off target. If you get a good pull by accident, then you can overshoot the hole - and if it's supposed to be a hyzer shot, you're way off because you're going straight or turning over instead of getting the hyzer.
While I won't disagree with folks who can manipulate their drivers to do what they want, coming down to a midrange/control disc is more in line with ball golf philosophy. Play a full stroke and drop down a club. It's not always applicable, but for me, I've taken probably 8 holes out of 18 and I use a midrange now instead of a driver.
The buzz is a great example. If you have a hole that's dead straight - 275' or so, a buzz is a great choice. Throw it straight at the hole and worst case (if you throw it straight) is the little fade at the end or a little turnover. If you throw a driver perfectly, you have to worry about going past 275' and skipping or just coming in at the right spot and then skipping away. If you throw a turnover shot, then you still have to throw the right hyzer angle to bring it up flat, but not turnover too much or drive by the hole -- skill shots either way, but less punishment on a screw up with the midrange.
Just my 2 cents
garublador1
* Ace Member *
black udder said:I play a course that is has most holes around 300' (give or take 20').
For me, it's a perfect midrange distance. I can throw a midrange with a full stroke and not expect to drive the disc 30' past the hole. Also, with a midrange, I'm not expecting a huge skip either. If I throw the line, then it should do what I want and I don't get too many unexpected results or crazy skips, etc.
With a driver, if you choose a stable disc and don't throw it hard enough, then it cuts too fast and skips off target. If you get a good pull by accident, then you can overshoot the hole - and if it's supposed to be a hyzer shot, you're way off because you're going straight or turning over instead of getting the hyzer.
While I won't disagree with folks who can manipulate their drivers to do what they want, coming down to a midrange/control disc is more in line with ball golf philosophy. Play a full stroke and drop down a club. It's not always applicable, but for me, I've taken probably 8 holes out of 18 and I use a midrange now instead of a driver.
The buzz is a great example. If you have a hole that's dead straight - 275' or so, a buzz is a great choice. Throw it straight at the hole and worst case (if you throw it straight) is the little fade at the end or a little turnover. If you throw a driver perfectly, you have to worry about going past 275' and skipping or just coming in at the right spot and then skipping away. If you throw a turnover shot, then you still have to throw the right hyzer angle to bring it up flat, but not turnover too much or drive by the hole -- skill shots either way, but less punishment on a screw up with the midrange.
Just my 2 cents
I agree with all of that, but it doesn't really apply to super overstable midranges. Discs like a Demon or Drone, for me at least, are shorter than my putters because of their overstability. They're also difficult to get consistant distances out of on spike hyzer lines and I'm assuming that's because they don't hold a line very well. All they want to do is fade.
Here's some posts Blake has made regarding super overstable midranges that I have found to be true as well:
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1531&start=15
black udder
* Ace Member *
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I throw a drone and it works well for me in certain situations. I can chuck it into a fairly stiff headwind and it won't turnover and stay over.
Also, the drone while it's stability may not be a big benefit to most folks, once it's beaten in, it's a great disc as well. It will retain the lss so you can throw it really flat and straight and it will still fade back at the end.
While this isn't a use for most folks and I understand a lot of folks don't like midrange discs like the drone, I've found a use for it and get predictable results with it. I think the drone is actually similar to the predator. If thrown hard it will fly very flat for the majority of it's flight, then when it slows down, it cranks left.
I've found it's also a good approach disc. You can throw it with a good chunk of anhyzer and it will fly a little right, then flatten out and come back. It's a guarantee that it'll come back and you don't get the skip, glide or distance you would doing that with a driver.
As with any disc, you have to put it through it's paces and evaluate if it's something that fits into your game or not. Perhaps I like the drone for the same reason I don't like the Roc (yes, I know, blasphemy!). Just can't throw a Roc like so many of you do - I get more predictable results with other discs.
Also, the drone while it's stability may not be a big benefit to most folks, once it's beaten in, it's a great disc as well. It will retain the lss so you can throw it really flat and straight and it will still fade back at the end.
While this isn't a use for most folks and I understand a lot of folks don't like midrange discs like the drone, I've found a use for it and get predictable results with it. I think the drone is actually similar to the predator. If thrown hard it will fly very flat for the majority of it's flight, then when it slows down, it cranks left.
I've found it's also a good approach disc. You can throw it with a good chunk of anhyzer and it will fly a little right, then flatten out and come back. It's a guarantee that it'll come back and you don't get the skip, glide or distance you would doing that with a driver.
As with any disc, you have to put it through it's paces and evaluate if it's something that fits into your game or not. Perhaps I like the drone for the same reason I don't like the Roc (yes, I know, blasphemy!). Just can't throw a Roc like so many of you do - I get more predictable results with other discs.
Amateur
Eagle Member
I like really overstable mids for windy upshots that would eat my putter, hyzer approaches, skip approaches (they don't skip as high or far as drivers), and any time I need to throw a short sidearm. My Whippet looks nasty from all the direct basket hits it has taken in it's short life.
Honestly, a slot in my bag that I would not want to be without. I'd rather give up drivers than my overstable mid. I'm just thankful that I'll never have to make that decision.
EDIT:Have we solved the spin debaucle yet? I didn't know what I was getting myself into there. I feel like I need some closure on the subject.
Honestly, a slot in my bag that I would not want to be without. I'd rather give up drivers than my overstable mid. I'm just thankful that I'll never have to make that decision.
EDIT:Have we solved the spin debaucle yet? I didn't know what I was getting myself into there. I feel like I need some closure on the subject.
MDR_3000
Eagle Member
Amateur said:
It seems it's spin + speed (determined by the disc) that will make a disc turn.
As far as forehand more spin than backhand....I'm not sure anyone will know unless someone breaks out a high speed camera.
jamsisjams
Double Eagle Member
So, I figured out what disc I e-mailed the Innova info about--the Gremlin, not the Ram. I was told that the Gremlin was similar to a Spider.
Sorry for the confusion, fellas. I'll try and do better background work next time.
Sorry for the confusion, fellas. I'll try and do better background work next time.
thatdirtykid
Older than my birth year suggests.
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that makes more sense, i believe the gremlin is a panther/spider crossed
swel3041
Double Eagle Member
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Bradley Walker said:
Tough call. I think it is very possible that he is right though. The "framerate" of the human eye is limited. The comparision to watching a wheel spin could be pretty accurate. once the wheel is spinning at a certain speed it can appear to be spinning slower or backwards because your eye cannont register the images that quickly. Really hard to say though, there are so many factors to what makes a disc go and its near impossible to accurately judege exactly what makes things happen. Just saying both discs went X distance doesnt mean they both flew with exactly the same characteristics. until there is a disc throwing maching that can throw exactly the same every single time I dont think we will ever know.
but I do think its likely safe to say that if its not increased spin that makes FH drives turn over easier, then its off-axis tourqe (or tendency to anhyzer release).
discmonkey42
Eagle Member
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If by bullshit you mean thouroughly researched, backed by laws of human biology and physics, and reinforced by Blake in the linked thread, then yes, it is bullshit.
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=655&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=rpm&start=45
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=655&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=rpm&start=45
black udder said:
Basically, yes. If you think of a throw that flutters, or a beat in disc, it will slow down faster than a clean release/new disc. We've all seen that the former will turn over more. That's the high spin, low speed scenario
Obviously different discs will be more/less sensitive to the exact speeds/spins, that's kind of the point.
Has anybody thrown the champ gator out there. this is an overstable mid with a very blunt rim that will not beat up and lose its stability. i still lament the loss of my beloved champ gator, you could always rely on it holding a solid hyzer line no matter the conditions or power, of course you can overpower them being a mid
jamsisjams
Double Eagle Member
I loved my friend's champ gator. It reminds me of the Z wasp but with a touch less glide, perhaps. I can't seem to find any in my area that are 170+, however.
