Poll - Hold Spots for Women?

[jenb]

I think its kinda lame to compare holding spots for women to holding spots for the poor, etc. There aren't income protected divisions. Holding spots for age groups is a more fair discussion, but everyone moves from one age group to another. Not so gender. It's unique.

Moreover, all these equality comments could be equally applicable in arguments against having gender protected divisions in the first place.

 

[biscoe]

you are the one who originally cited cost as being one of the issues to women seeking to play.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think its kinda lame to compare holding spots for women to holding spots for the poor, etc. There aren't income protected divisions. Holding spots for age groups is a more fair discussion, but everyone moves from one age group to another. Not so gender. It's unique.

Moreover, all these equality comments could be equally applicable in arguments against having gender protected divisions in the first place.

I, for one, am not making the equality argument. My point was that a series of reasons were given why women can't be asked to sign up promptly like men. Some of those reasons, like income, apply to some men, and not all women, so aren't terribly convincing to me. Other reasons are, which is why I'm fine with TDs holding spots for women if the TDs choose.

 

[jenb]

TDs of Supertours are already required to hold slots for pros. Why is it suddenly unfair or overly burdensome for them to be required to additionally hold 4 or 5 slots for women?

 

[DavidSauls]

Why not let the TDs decide? They're doing all the fundraising and all the work.

 

[biscoe]

what is the problem with pre-registering and getting a full refund if you back out 2 weeks in advance? please don't cite economic woes- i don't buy into the idea that they are any more prevalent among women than men. can women not decide if they want to play or not 2 weeks prior to an event?

(for what it's worth i've always given a full refund up to one week prior and after that made players backing out buy a sponsor disc and given them the rest of their dough back- i disagree with the 50% refund idea that the ORG pushes)

 

[jenb]

Why not let them decide whether to hold spots for touring pros? (Actually, I looked it up, and its 10 spots held at NTs, and not all Supertour events. Mea culpa.)

I think the main reason is that some TDs may not think to do it until too late, or might feel pressured not to do it. If it's a rule though, it allows the TD to say, "Sorry guys. It's out of my hands."

So the rule backs up the TD who wants to do it and otherwise would take a lot of flack for doing it.

Clearly, there would be flack. Just look at this thread.

 

[vonDrehle]

Are we going to hold spots for African American disc golfers as well? All the tournaments I have done I have only seen maybe 6-7 African Americans, and only once in my own group. Maybe they aren't signing up because they don't want to be in a field by themselves with a bunch of whities :|

I'm all for letting TD's decide. I imagine they know the general population for tournaments in their State/Region so they can plan accordingly.

 

[biscoe]

Why not let them decide whether to hold spots for touring pros? (Actually, I looked it up, and its 10 spots held at NTs, and not all Supertour events. Mea culpa.)

imo it should not be mandatory to hold spots for touring pros either. that requirement is a function of the pdga pipedream of major marketability.

I think the main reason is that some TDs may not think to do it until too late, or might feel pressured not to do it. If it's a rule though, it allows the TD to say, "Sorry guys. It's out of my hands."

So the rule backs up the TD who wants to do it and otherwise would take a lot of flack for doing it.

Clearly, there would be flack. Just look at this thread.

why should a td who doesn't want to reserve spots be forced to do it to make up for a spineless td who claims to want to reserve spots but lacks the cojones to do so? if they are that affected by "flack" they shouldn't be running events to begin with.

 

[jenb]

Well,all I can say is I'm tired of signing up early for events hoping other women will be encouraged to do the same, and then getting burned. I won't be forming a team for am world doubles next year, so you guys can enjoy your little sausage party. I'll just be one more woman who passed through the tournament scene.

 

[eegor]

It's a lot easier to get women out on the course if they see other women are playing. I would strongly encourage the promotion of women in the sport. You'll get better facilities (i.e. restrooms, bridges) if women are asking for them from the city. You'll also get a more receptive response from most cities when asking to install or expand courses if they know women are involved.

Do you really want to grow the sport? - promote the participation of women.

 

[vonDrehle]

Sounds like you should talk to the women in YOUR area. They are the ones not signing up. Women are as discouraged/encouraged to sign up to tournaments as everyone else.

 

[Corack]

I voted Male and agree. I don't mind the fact that they want to hold some of the spots for women up to a predetermined time. I think I can understand why women would prefer to play on an all womens card as opposed to a mixed card. Once I ended up a playing on a card with a woman before and I did not have a problem with her beating me. I go to tournaments and the park for casual rounds to have fun and meet people. If my wife decides to join me in the future at some of these events, I am sure it would be less stressful for her to play with the ladies than some of the obnoxious guys I have been forced to endure with on the course.

 

[eegor]

Sounds like you should talk to the women in YOUR area. They are the ones not signing up. Women are as discouraged/encouraged to sign up to tournaments as everyone else.

I talk to women about playing. They want to see that other women are playing before "embarrassing themselves".

The point is... I'll go to an empty park and be happy to toss discs all day. Women are, in general, a lot more social. They even go to the restroom together...

Jen is in my area. Paige Pierce comes from my area. There are far too few women on the courses in general... IMHO.

I don't think it would be a big deal to hold 5 spots for women. If one or two don't fill, there's always someone there that wants to play.

I really like women.

 

[vonDrehle]

So women will only sign up if they see other women that are signed up therefor no one ever signs up?

Grow a figurative pair and sign up ladies!

 

[Jay Dub]

I never understand anyone getting pissed at anyone but themselves for getting beat by a woman. I don't think you should get upset at all. You should practice more if it bothers you.

When I played tournaments and leagues there was a lady that always played. The goal of all of us was to beat her not because she was a woman but because her goal was to beat us, which she did about half the time.

Her and I were partners in mixed double league a couple times, she taught me an important thing about my putting. I kept hitting the front of the basket and finally she said, in a firm voice, "Jerry, if you can't get it up you can't put it in"!

She was cute too.

 

[DavidSauls]

Why not let them decide whether to hold spots for touring pros? (Actually, I looked it up, and its 10 spots held at NTs, and not all Supertour events. Mea culpa.)

For what it's worth, I make a big distinction between NTs and Supertours.

NTs are, or are trying to be, among the showcase events of our sport, and the PDGA is more heavily involved with them. There's a better argument for ensuring a women's division there.

Supertours aren't all that super, being several rungs down the ladder from the Worlds, the Other Majors, and the NTs. They're big local or regional events, almost entirely run locally, and I'd defer to the TD.

Disclaimer: I'm a TD, so perhaps biased toward TD discretion.

 

[brettricewku]

After reading a few posts, if women feel uncomfortable playing with men, then don't play the sport. Im sure men would feel uncomfortable cheerleading or other women dominated sports so they either have to deal with it or not play it. Don't hold spots for anyone, men or women, pro or ams.

 

[B3NDER]

This reeks of a form of Affirmative Action.... (not that I'm complaining I guess)

Maybe its Equal opportunity I'm thinking of?

 

[notroman]

Just go through reading (or skimming) through all the pages, and here is what I don't understand. I voted disagree, and the reason is below:

One reason we are reluctant to preregister early is because we don't know whether a division will form. Guys don't typically have that problem, so I imagine it is difficult to understand the game of chicken that is played as we wait to see who else signs up.

What is holding spots for women going to do if they're not signing up to begin with? Let's say Lisa and Tammy both sign up, because they usually sign up regardless ahead of time. But at the same time, Cindy, Laura, and Jackie are all waiting for a third girl to sign up before they sign up themselves. That's the game of chicken we are talking about, right? So none of them ever sign up because they're waiting on a third, and only two girls end up registering.

So now you have the TD hold spots for women until about a week before the event. Lisa and Tammy once again, pre-register. Cindy, Laura, and Jackie are still waiting for that third, despite there being spots held, and still never end up registering before the deadline. What exactly is this hold solving? The root cause of the problem is not being addressed.

How would you guys feel to be put on a card with kids?

Let me tell you, it SUCKS.

If a full card is not reached for the girls then they get put with Juniors or bottom Rec (or Novice) card.

I once played so bad in the first round of my tournament I ended up being put on a Juniors < 13 card for the second round. I was playing with three boys that were about 11 or 12 years old. It was the most fun round I've ever played and I ended up shooting my first 1000 rated round.