Power Pocket and Arc-My new video

[Bradley Walker]

Someone said I should start a thread for this video.

 

[RFrance]

Thanks Bradley. This will be much easier to find and point people to. Fantastic video. That would be very hard to explain in words if not impossible. Visually it makes a lot of sense and easy to understand.

 

[lines]

Heading to the field in t-minus 150 minutes...

 

[Putt for D'oh]

OK, so this highlights an issue I have and makes me think it is much more significant than I thought.

Collapsing shoulder and small arc. I knew this was an issue for a while and have thought I was making progress but filmed myself the other day and I haven't. I thought simply getting the disc in to the right pec :beto drill was the answer and its part but my arc is very very small, and in practice i'm not getting the disc anywhere near the right pec.

I caught what you have meant about pointing the lower arm left of the target. Made sense and in feeling held my shoulders closed longer, but filing myself i see i'm not even close to getting this right.

So? More right pec drill? take some glidey mids and get that elbow pointed 45o left of target and just work on big smooth arc from there?

My next step I had been thinking about is actually hammering onto a board as if pounding nails into a wall from that setup.

 

[Bradley Walker]

OK, so this highlights an issue I have and makes me think it is much more significant than I thought.

Collapsing shoulder and small arc. I knew this was an issue for a while and have thought I was making progress but filmed myself the other day and I haven't. I thought simply getting the disc in to the right pec :beto drill was the answer and its part but my arc is very very small, and in practice i'm not getting the disc anywhere near the right pec.

I caught what you have meant about pointing the lower arm left of the target. Made sense and in feeling held my shoulders closed longer, but filing myself i see i'm not even close to getting this right.

So? More right pec drill? take some glidey mids and get that elbow pointed 45o left of target and just work on big smooth arc from there?

My next step I had been thinking about is actually hammering onto a board as if pounding nails into a wall from that setup.

Get a stack of putters and throw at catch speed and really, really do what I said. Go slow.

You will find your body will need to SLOW DOWN when you make your arc LARGER!!!

Thank about that. Little arc that is all collapsed you are trying to spin faster until your form is crap.

Big arc, you can slow down the center rotation speed and still go faster.

So, start slow. Big arc. Force it out to the left. You will need to start gripping the disc now... As your centripetal force is going to go through the roof and you have never really had to grip tight before.

 

[Discusted]

Thanks for answering our requests for video and a better explanation of ARC and 45 degree we were asking for. Reading through those threads it became apparent to me the reason my accuracy goes into the ****ter (shots spit to the right of target) when trying to do the reverse K or wide rail is because of an early shoulder opening. With the wide rail I really feel the Snap, that is the disc pivoting rapidly around my grip point between the index finger and thumb. I cant get this feeling consistently without the wide rail, so now I can practice the wide rail, get my snap, and now I know I have a technique to my shoulder opening too early to prevent shots to the right.

Will field practice this soon and be back with results.

 

[lyleoross]

You should also know that the mods collect such videos into a technique section that is in the back of the forums. I'm pretty sure your other vids are there too.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Thanks for answering our requests for video and a better explanation of ARC and 45 degree we were asking for. Reading through those threads it became apparent to me the reason my accuracy goes into the ****ter (shots spit to the right of target) when trying to do the reverse K or wide rail is because of an early shoulder opening.

Keerect.

Elbow forward, or "elbowing the door down" usually becomes SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HEYSER...

 

[slowplastic]

Keerect.

Elbow forward, or "elbowing the door down" usually becomes SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HEYSER...

Yep I know that one.

What do you feel is over your front foot...your head/upper spine, your shoulder, your elbow? How far forward are you trying to get?

 

[Discusted]

Keerect.

Elbow forward, or "elbowing the door down" usually becomes SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HEYSER...

Yes I've never really understood elbowing down the door, I figured that'd be something I worked on later after working on other things. Now I'm wondering if that "Elbow down the door" advice should really be "Elbow down the door, but that door is 45 degrees left of target"? Or is a forceful elbowing not really needed at all?

 

[Tepi]

This right here is gold, I can't wait to start working on it!

 

[drk_evns]

Love this video. Really clarifies what you were trying to say to us in the other thread. Sometimes a visual really bridges the gap of understanding (which is why I love the way SW22 does things).

As for the elbowing down the door thing: I think it's advice people give in order to force elbow extension. However, it ends with what BW said (SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HYZER...)

It really helps me if I think about it like this instead: Get into an athletic position and get the disc in the power pocket with your elbow forward like it should be. Now, without moving your shoulder joint, extend your lower arm (say hello to the hit, approx. 45 degrees left of target like BW says). Now rotate your upper body without moving your arm until you're in a wide reachback position. Say hello to your backswing. Now rotate as if you were throwing your disc slowly, but keep your shoulder joint static (never closes, even a little bit) and allow the elbow to be somewhat loose. You should feel the rotation force your elbow closed a little bit and then SNAP back to straight right to the hit point you addressed before.

THAT is how you feel snap. Keep speeding it up and build it into your throw.

SW22 helped me come to this epiphany with his most recent hammer throw/stop hugging yourself videos.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Yes I've never really understood elbowing down the door, I figured that'd be something I worked on later after working on other things. Now I'm wondering if that "Elbow down the door" advice should really be "Elbow down the door, but that door is 45 degrees left of target"? Or is a forceful elbowing not really needed at all?

It has kind of gotten me off to where I am now pulling straight through, collapsing shoulder and little arc. trying to really drive my elbow at the target along the lines of one of the videos with Lizzotte and Eagle where Simon is saying to really drive the elbow. I have felt in that video and a few others from pros that they aren't actually teaching the right thing because they are naturally doing stuff but they aren't sure what they are doing and as we've said so much feel ain't real so they just tell us what they think they are doing based on how it feels to them.
They are doing something different and better than what they relay and bad habits are created trying to mimic that.

Someone's critique thread got me on the right track a few months ago, but I've been unable to actually put it into practice and all of this just reaffirms it.

 

[Jackparadise1084]

Love this video. Really clarifies what you were trying to say to us in the other thread. Sometimes a visual really bridges the gap of understanding (which is why I love the way SW22 does things).

As for the elbowing down the door thing: I think it's advice people give in order to force elbow extension. However, it ends with what BW said (SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, I ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HYZER...)

It really helps me if I think about it like this instead: Get into an athletic position and get the disc in the power pocket with your elbow forward like it should be. Now, without moving your shoulder joint, extend your lower arm (say hello to the hit, approx. 45 degrees left of target like BW says). Now rotate your upper body without moving your arm until you're in a wide reachback position. Say hello to your backswing. Now rotate as if you were throwing your disc slowly, but keep your shoulder joint static (never closes, even a little bit) and allow the elbow to be somewhat loose. You should feel the rotation force your elbow closed a little bit and then SNAP back to straight right to the hit point you addressed before.

THAT is how you feel snap. Keep speeding it up and build it into your throw.

SW22 helped me come to this epiphany with his most recent hammer throw/stop hugging yourself videos.

Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I'm trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you're saying would help a ton. Thank you!

 

[drk_evns]

Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I'm trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you're saying would help a ton. Thank you!

Yeah I'll see if I can get a video together tonight. It's super helpful and the best way I've found to demonstrate the SNAP feeling you should get in the throw.

 

[drk_evns]

It has kind of gotten me off to where I am now pulling straight through, collapsing shoulder and little arc. trying to really drive my elbow at the target along the lines of one of the videos with Lizzotte and Eagle where Simon is saying to really drive the elbow. I have felt in that video and a few others from pros that they aren't actually teaching the right thing because they are naturally doing stuff but they aren't sure what they are doing and as we've said so much feel ain't real so they just tell us what they think they are doing based on how it feels to them.
They are doing something different and better than what they relay and bad habits are created trying to mimic that.

Someone's critique thread got me on the right track a few months ago, but I've been unable to actually put it into practice and all of this just reaffirms it.

I think the problem is the elbow forward advice only helps if you already know and understand the feeling of snap.

If you do it before you know what snap should be/feel like, it causes the shoulder and small arc issue BW mentions in the video.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Yep I know that one.

What do you feel is over your front foot...your head/upper spine, your shoulder, your elbow? How far forward are you trying to get?

It defines itself. Let the idea define itself. Let it change your body without you thinking about it. So, do what I said... and just feel what your body does. Let the body support the movement.

When you get your shoulder, elbow and arm to arc AROUND you head (not collapsing to the right with an open shoulder) you will be rotating over your forward hip joint. The foot is relative.

Collapse leads to the front hip STOPPING trying to go right to follow the SHOULDER. This is what I call a JAMB or a stall.

On the other hand, a forward arc, that feels like 45 left makes the hip rotate, and lead the shoulder, which almost stops for a split second.

 

[UhhNegative]

Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I'm trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you're saying would help a ton. Thank you!

Here's my one-take stab at doing what he is describing. Ignore me at the end going too fast and opening my shoulders too early, lol. If I could do it well I'd be throwing a lot better!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yKeGq48JBtVzgRWw8

 

[drk_evns]

Here's my one-take stab at doing what he is describing. Ignore me at the end going too fast and opening my shoulders too early, lol. If I could do it well I'd be throwing a lot better!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yKeGq48JBtVzgRWw8

Yep. That's pretty darn close, maybe a little wider than necessary, but then again maybe not.. Really helps define those positions and start to get the feel for the right throw and snap.

Oh, and when you turn back, you're using mostly your hips not your shoulders. I'm guessing you just misspoke a bit.

Realistically, your shoulder will be forced closed slightly because of the rotation... and also, your hips are opening so the hit is actually a LITTLE further forward.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Ok so I didn't have a lot of time this afternoon, but I did go out in the yard and try this for about 20 throws. Nice and slow, focused on hitting the pocket then extending out left in a wide arc.

I didn't hit it right every time, but the ones I did came out fast, nose stayed down without me having to force it down, and tons more spin. I actually felt the disc forcefully leaving my grip. Most interestingly and probably beneficial to me, is it forced a more proper brace. Hips opened first naturally, and I felt my heel dig down as I rotated, follow through was with centered weight.

This for sure warrants more practice and has me excited. I kind of backed off my form lately, I got a bit discouraged with little progress. This makes the other stuff I've been working on make more sense. Thank you for this.