Precast Concrete Pads & Anchors

[dark_clark]

Norwalk Concrete Products recently posted this video.

I'd guess your local precast company could pull off forming up teepads. Cost, it's an unknown to me at this point. Can't imagine it's inexpensive. . .

 

[davetherocketguy]

That's a nice service. Too bad disc golf is a niche market otherwise we might see this all over the place. I see they use a crane to set the pads. Hope they have something else to set pads in heavy woods like maybe a bobcat with a set of forks on it.

 

[Therealgoat]

For the precaster, it would just be construction of the specific forms used for the tee pad, and it's probably a one-time cost for them. After that, mass/repeated production is easy for them. Throw in some lifting eyes to pick with and you're good to go.

Delivery is typically just like the pic shown above - the precaster will drive it to the location and unload it with their own truck. How you get it from unloading to final position, of course, is the harder part.

A large part of the cost would def. be renting the equipment required to move the pads as, like you mentioned, a lot of courses in the woods can't be driven to. A tracked skid steer with some loading forks could probably go just about anywhere (within reason), as long as you secure the load to the forks so it can't fall off. Be careful here folks, proper rigging saves lives, and you do not want even a small precast slab falling on you. Secure that load and watch for all possible pinch points.

My local course has poured some pads with their own forms near the parking lot and attempted to drag them out with a tractor slowly through heavy woods, but it's tough going and you always run the risk of cracking / damaging them during transit. They were successful, but it was a lot of effort.

 

[knettles]

Looks cool, but there was one thing that worried me a bit. I only have a small amount of experience installing courses, but wouldn't a precast anchor like the one in that video not be very secure? Normally, you dig a hole, put the basket/sleeve down in the hole, then pour the concrete in the hole so it forms snug to all the dirt surrounding it. If you put the precast anchor in, then fill the surrounding area with loose dirt, wouldn't the basket wobble around some? Maybe someone with more experience in the matter can chime in.

 

[runningoz]

So the pad just sits on the crushed rock/limestone? What is to stop the pad from shifting over time?

 

[BionicRib]

Is the concrete reinforced with anything?

 

[Bultx1215]

Looks cool, but there was one thing that worried me a bit. I only have a small amount of experience installing courses, but wouldn't a precast anchor like the one in that video not be very secure? Normally, you dig a hole, put the basket/sleeve down in the hole, then pour the concrete in the hole so it forms snug to all the dirt surrounding it. If you put the precast anchor in, then fill the surrounding area with loose dirt, wouldn't the basket wobble around some? Maybe someone with more experience in the matter can chime in.

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Would depend on the ground its placed in. Clays and other soil types that compact well could hold it up well if properly compacted/tamped after placement. Rocky stuff like we have here , it would wobble like there is no tomorrow.

Is the concrete reinforced with anything?

There would just about have to be. Otherwise, they could not do a 4pt lift from the corners.

So the pad just sits on the crushed rock/limestone? What is to stop the pad from shifting over time?

If the ground is properly compacted or dug out and replaced with compacted base, it will be stable ...just as stable as if it were cast in place. Set on loose material, you will get some shifting, but probably not a whole lot. After the initial shift due to settling the loose material, the fill underneath will actually act as a shock absorber to mitigate ground movement. This method is used every day to set water tanks, etc..

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Those pads must weigh 3,000+ lbs each. Can they be moved with a bobcat or farm tractor's front end loader?

 

[Bultx1215]

Those pads must weigh 3,000+ lbs each. Can they be moved with a bobcat or farm tractor's front end loader?

Depends on the concrete material where they were cast....but they will be close to 3k give or take 500# or so.

Medium to larger Bobcats can move them easily. As long as they have at least a 2000# capacity, you will be good since their capacities are rated at 50% of their tipping load. If you know what you are doing, you can force a smaller machine to do it...but it will be a tippy ride and will risk breaking it if it slams the ground.

As to farm tractors, it will take a good sized one. Most farm loaders are add ons and not as strong lift wise as a skid steer. Just have to look at the rating.

 

[Nubes]

seems like Pre cast will crack like crazy unless its got re bar running all through it. Pre cast will be flat on a not so flat surface. Its not like a car is going to be parked on the tee pad but pouring the concrete would probably last longer and not cost as much??

 

[Bultx1215]

seems like Pre cast will crack like crazy unless its got re bar running all through it. Pre cast will be flat on a not so flat surface. Its not like a car is going to be parked on the tee pad but pouring the concrete would probably last longer and not cost as much??

It can, but if its done right, it will be fine. Concrete cracks..that is a rule of life. Cracking doesn't necessarily mean a failure. Concrete crack failure is defined as a crack that a US nickel can be inserted into..on edge of course. Steel mesh and or rebar, on no more than 12" centers each way with a 2" off the form perimeter bar, will hold it together as long as the cracking isn't catastrophic. If the use fiber in addition to the steel, even better. Fiber alone is wrong. Fiber is an admixture designed to augment structural reinforcement and prevent random cracking, not a stand alone structural reinforcement. Plus, they will be using better mixes for precast, or at least should be. 4000psi or up , maybe even a 650 flex mix or High Early. That gives you a stronger, more durable product.

As to placement, that is why they should be placed on at least 2" min of loose material. Small rock, say 3/8" and under, or sand. Before placement, you should smooth it out to get rid of hills and valleys, place the pad, wiggle it a tad and you are good to go. It will settle down and be solid.

In my experience, cast in place would cost more. You have to buy enough forms to make it cost effective to use readymix ( usually 5yds plus) or balance out cost of bag crete. Ground has to be leveled and prepped, forms set, steel set and place and finish...lotta steps and time for a single tee. These guys can prep and pour in mass with reusable steel forms and then deliver. You just prep ground, add your loose fill and set. Done. Less steps in the field which is where one incurs higher costs. The company being able to pour and finish multiple pads at once and all in the same place cuts cost for them by a large factor, thus a cheaper end product delivered. They don't have to have finishers spread out over a whole course getting the pads poured and finished, so...less labor is needed. And all you need is 2-3 people and a bobcat to set them.

 

[davetherocketguy]

seems like Pre cast will crack like crazy unless its got re bar running all through it. Pre cast will be flat on a not so flat surface. Its not like a car is going to be parked on the tee pad but pouring the concrete would probably last longer and not cost as much??

It's not difficult to make a flat and level base. It's pretty simple really. Because of how they are handling it I am sure there is some kind of wire mesh reinforcement or something like that.

 

[Nubes]

It's not difficult to make a flat and level base. It's pretty simple really. Because of how they are handling it I am sure there is some kind of wire mesh reinforcement or something like that.

Preparation will be key. If they take the time to grade out a nice flat area should only crack at the joints...hopefully. Its been a long time ago but that is what I did for living for about 7-8 years. I worked for a large outfit and did heavy highway and some building trade projects which was usually in the winter because we were working under a roof or indoors. The last one I was on was Paul Brown stadium in Cincinnati. My step dad is a legend in the world of concrete. One of the hardest working men Ive ever met. He instilled that in me at a young age. I had my first job busing tables at 14 In believe? LOL. I still help him with occasional side jobs in the summer but concrete is hard work!!!

 

[Nubes]

It can, but if its done right, it will be fine. Concrete cracks..that is a rule of life. Cracking doesn't necessarily mean a failure. Concrete crack failure is defined as a crack that a US nickel can be inserted into..on edge of course. Steel mesh and or rebar, on no more than 12" centers each way with a 2" off the form perimeter bar, will hold it together as long as the cracking isn't catastrophic. If the use fiber in addition to the steel, even better. Fiber alone is wrong. Fiber is an admixture designed to augment structural reinforcement and prevent random cracking, not a stand alone structural reinforcement. Plus, they will be using better mixes for precast, or at least should be. 4000psi or up , maybe even a 650 flex mix or High Early. That gives you a stronger, more durable product.

As to placement, that is why they should be placed on at least 2" min of loose material. Small rock, say 3/8" and under, or sand. Before placement, you should smooth it out to get rid of hills and valleys, place the pad, wiggle it a tad and you are good to go. It will settle down and be solid.

In my experience, cast in place would cost more. You have to buy enough forms to make it cost effective to use readymix ( usually 5yds plus) or balance out cost of bag crete. Ground has to be leveled and prepped, forms set, steel set and place and finish...lotta steps and time for a single tee. These guys can prep and pour in mass with reusable steel forms and then deliver. You just prep ground, add your loose fill and set. Done. Less steps in the field which is where one incurs higher costs. The company being able to pour and finish multiple pads at once and all in the same place cuts cost for them by a large factor, thus a cheaper end product delivered. They don't have to have finishers spread out over a whole course getting the pads poured and finished, so...less labor is needed. And all you need is 2-3 people and a bobcat to set them.

You sound like a project manager I used to work for?? Tom is that you? lol Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking of mixing on site or using mini mix trucks? 3-4 guys would be all you need pouring 4-6 pads a day. Bull float, edger and a broom should be all they need? At 4 inches thick 5-6 yards of concrete would go a long way. If they have all there spots ready to go, Bobcat in the pre cast slabs would be a pretty fast and effective way to do this. You could even move them later if needed?? No wait time with pre cast either....

 

[Bultx1215]

I still help him with occasional side jobs in the summer but concrete is hard work!!!

You should try Laredo concrete work in the summer. Any trowel machine under 300# is a float only machine. Once the temps hit 108-110, they are useless. My machine was a 400#er that will hurt you if you let it. Toughest place I ever worked. That's why the 30 year old concrete finishers look like they are in their mid 50's there.

You sound like a project manager I used to work for?? Tom is that you? lol Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking of mixing on site or using mini mix trucks? 3-4 guys would be all you need pouring 4-6 pads a day. Bull float, edger and a broom should be all they need? At 4 inches thick 5-6 yards of concrete would go a long way. If they have all there spots ready to go, Bobcat in the pre cast slabs would be a pretty fast and effective way to do this. You could even move them later if needed?? No wait time with pre cast either....

Nope, just a 25yr contractor that is still in the game.

A volumetric truck might be the best bet, although the mix is not as good as readymix. The extra admixtures they use in readymix really help with durability over volumetric or hand mix. I mentioned the 5 yd deal only because that is where they stop charging extra for short loads in my area. That number is pretty much burned into the brain pan. Hate paying more for small loads. I just want to rent the concrete truck for a bit, not buy it.:\ One outfit here charges nearly a grand for a single yard delivery. Ridiculous.

Agreed, 3-4 guys can handle that easily, esp if at least 2 are experienced hands. If you hand mix, I would add at least two more or cut the size to be poured until you can see how its going.

With precasting them, you can do double or triple the work with the same hands. You won't be all spread out and everything is right there making it easy to add more without straining the help. We did one deal that was very similar. Casting picnic table tops and seats. Poured about 12 yds with 4 people. Two to place and two to finish. Once the placing was done, those two went behind for final finish and broom. Worked out very well like that. So well, we might have been fine with 3. BUT, in So. TX, you should never skimp on help. That sun and heat will bite you fast if you let it. Have plenty of scars from that.:\

I would put steel to it before you broom. Floating leaves the surface matrix open, unsealed. Leads to a more porous surface and makes it more prone to chalking later. When the surface is steel troweled, it seals up all the small micro cracks you aren't seeing, preventing them from becoming bigger later. I have done it both ways many millions of time...steel always gives the best product hands down. Yes, the broom does tear it back open to a large degree, but one can't argue with the results. The steel troweled surfaces always fare better. That is where a lot of DG tees get inferior results due to skipping a vital step.

 

[Nubes]

With precasting them, you can do double or triple the work with the same hands. You won't be all spread out and everything is right there making it easy to add more without straining the help. We did one deal that was very similar. Casting picnic table tops and seats. Poured about 12 yds with 4 people. Two to place and two to finish. Once the placing was done, those two went behind for final finish and broom. Worked out very well like that. So well, we might have been fine with 3. BUT, in So. TX, you should never skimp on help. That sun and heat will bite you fast if you let it. Have plenty of scars from that.:\

I would put steel to it before you broom. Floating leaves the surface matrix open, unsealed. Leads to a more porous surface and makes it more prone to chalking later. When the surface is steel troweled, it seals up all the small micro cracks you aren't seeing, preventing them from becoming bigger later. I have done it both ways many millions of time...steel always gives the best product hands down. Yes, the broom does tear it back open to a large degree, but one can't argue with the results. The steel troweled surfaces always fare better. That is where a lot of DG tees get inferior results due to skipping a vital step.

Yep! You can slow down the set up process a little with a slick finish that seals up the surface a little before you apply a broom finish. And I do not miss for one second what it was like following a trowel machine burning in edges as the slab is blowing up on you in direct heat and sunlight! LOL :wall: And now I wonder why the arthritis in my elbows acts up time to time? Burning in floors on my hands and knees and following curb machines all day will do it you!