Putting like feldberg "no spin"?

[HyzerUniBomber]

I've been blogging about my battle with the push putt and the 30 day Mark Ellis plan.

http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2013/10/push-putt-straddle-edition.html

http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2013/10/putting-with-confidence-update.html

There's a bunch more on the site, but let me just say that after spending the last 6 weeks trying to putt everyday and the last 2 weeks doing the Mark Ellis putting confidence thing...

1. you do spin the putter.
2. you don't try to spin the putter
3. the release of the putter will spin it for you.

I feel like it's not very well explained in any of the videos that I've watched, but opening your hand and pointing at the basket will rotate the disc. When you get way out (10m) - at least for me - I have to put my hand in the 1:00 position on the disk and allow my wrist to un-cock to get the disc the extra umph to keep it from turning into a high lob.

All of this said, I feel like the single most important thing is doing what feels right to you. Feldberg, Nikko, Schusterick, Wysocki... they all putt differently. If you have the time and way to make it happen, try the 30 day Putting Confidence challenge and focus on solid fundamentals. It really does work.

 

[teemkey]

Excellent summary Nelson!

I would add: Develop a routine that consistently aligns your body to the same line to the basket.

 

[juju]

Does putting lefty (counter spin) help with this at all?

 

[nnelson42]

Does putting lefty (counter spin) help with this at all?

nope.

Excellent summary Nelson!

I would add: Develop a routine that consistently aligns your body to the same line to the basket.

Thank you. Completely agree about the routine. Practice makes perfect. You want to get to the point where everything is really muscle memory. That way when you are on the course you are simply putting and not trying to remember 10 different things to do at once.

I feel like it's not very well explained in any of the videos that I've watched, but opening your hand and pointing at the basket will rotate the disc.

Agreed. No one actually comes out and says this. Feldberg says something along the lines of "trying to place a salad bowl on a table", but there is still spin. They should say that the push putt minimizes spin, not completely eliminates it.

When you get way out (10m) - at least for me - I have to put my hand in the 1:00 position on the disk and allow my wrist to un-cock to get the disc the extra umph to keep it from turning into a high lob.

For me (a right handed putter), the farther out i get, the more right of the basket I aim. Mostly because I am putting on a hyzer line and the disc will want to dive back toward the basket naturally.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Agreed. No one actually comes out and says this. Feldberg says something along the lines of "trying to place a salad bowl on a table", but there is still spin. They should say that the push putt minimizes spin, not completely eliminates it.

For me (a right handed putter), the farther out i get, the more right of the basket I aim. Mostly because I am putting on a hyzer line and the disc will want to dive back toward the basket naturally.

Yep, I think his point is that you have to stop trying to spin the disc by having any lateral movement.

I've ended up with a trajectory at 25', pretty flat release, and that has very little arc to it, meaning that at the high point of the throw, the disc is just at basket top height or lower. It's a pretty slow moving putt. Because of this, at the 25' range, even if the disc is in a hyzer, it just doesn't break left.

This brings up a very interesting point though, and one that I'm just starting to work on. Going from 25' to the circle, something pretty big changes. The disc has to float for 5+ extra feet. In a 25' putt, yes the disc is floating, but you can damn near throw a driver from 25' and be as accurate as you are with a putter. The next 5' though, is where you start to see the disc have to hold it's line - break, not break, whatever it does - so that you have to put some input into the thing.

Good stuff, though - interesting reading.

 

[Tpro]

Some people just are not Push Putters... I like to think of my self as a very Solid putter and if I try to swing my Arm like its just plain HORRIBLE. That being said ALOT of these push putters are putting* spin on their putts outside of 25 feet.

 

[thisislorenb]

One does not simply "Putt like Feldberg"

Agreed. I don't try to emulate anyone's putting style. I do what's comfortable for me and just put it in the @$&%ing basket.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Dave says he includes 5/15 steps in the youtube vid. Then he says he has 10/15 in some other video. Then he says there will be one with all 15 coming out "this summer" (should have been 2 summers ago). Where can I get these?

(and any other video like that)

 

[biscoe]

Climo described it years ago in Disc Golf Journal (for those of you who remember it) as pretending you were tossing a brick at the basket.

 

[JTdisc]

A good push putt will have spin. The more spin you have on it, the farther (and truer) it will fly. The key is that the spin comes from the fingers and not from the wrist.

 

[JTacoma03]

Dave says he includes 5/15 steps in the youtube vid. Then he says he has 10/15 in some other video. Then he says there will be one with all 15 coming out "this summer" (should have been 2 summers ago). Where can I get these?

(and any other video like that)

That video was never shot. It was supposed to be, but it didn't happen.



Also, Nelson really nailed it on the head. Awesome grasp of concept without getting bogged down in the detail. I spent a good portion of time trying to copy the minute details of that feldberg method...and it really didn't lead anywhere. IMHO I think Dave over-describes the method. Nelson picked up on the basics of what feldberg is saying, and if you stick to those, you'll find the small nuances that work for you personally. As long as you're getting the disc in the basket, who cares if you putt 100% like some pro or another.

 

[Jouni]

I have tried to push putt with straight arm for some time now, put decided to go back to moving my elbow also, so that the motion is more forward and not just pendulum motion. I just can't get enough power to straight arm putt, and it's always very arching instead of almost straight. I still don't try to spin the disc, but with added power from straightening the arm when reaching the basket, I immediately get much more cleaner putts.

But still, I can't figure out a proper way to grip the putter. It feels awkward to putt any fingers inside the rim, but without those it's hard to get consistent grip and power delivery from far. When I put pinkie on the inside wall of the rim, then the putters wobbles and goes even more nose down that without it.

 

[Smigles]

Dave says he includes 5/15 steps in the youtube vid. Then he says he has 10/15 in some other video. Then he says there will be one with all 15 coming out "this summer" (should have been 2 summers ago). Where can I get these?

(and any other video like that)

this one ? ( afaik this was allready out when he shot that video you linked to. )

 

[Dan Ensor]

Are you asking? Or telling? Because I don't know. He doesn't say.

But yeah, where would I get that video?

 

[wake911]

A good push putt will have spin. The more spin you have on it, the farther (and truer) it will fly. The key is that the spin comes from the fingers and not from the wrist.

I agree with this statement. I try to impart the minimum amount of spin required to hold the true line to the basket.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

one of my favorite putting vids

search the youtube for KC putting videos. specially an old crappy quality one

 

[iacas]

I agree that Feldbeard is teaching more of his "feels" than what he might actually be doing. If you get bogged down into the minutiae of the video, you'll also do things that are close to pointless - making sure your wrist angle is at the same angle as your front foot (Feldbeard gives some silly reason why this makes everything "in line" or something).

It's one of the best videos out there, but it's still largely feel-based. DF doesn't feel as though his elbow flexes and extends at all, but it does. He feels as though he's pushing with the heel of his palm, but the disc is still largely ejected via other means.

The basics that I took from the video are:

1. Balance - I think that developing a stance from which you can comfortably throw and remain in balance is an important point. Balance is important in virtually every sport, but it bears repeating.
2. Throwing in a Line to Minimize Misses - I don't care about his story with the Chinese children (IIRC) and how eye dominance matters. I think people who are athletic tend to figure that stuff out pretty quickly. I did like his rifle analogy - and by making the motion of my arm more vertical and less about generating spin with a bending and straightening elbow and wrist, I was able to minimize my misses. Of course, the opposite likely works too - spin putters probably miss left and right but not high or low.
3. Letting Spin Happen - I think that done properly a push putt or a "spush putt" has plenty of spin, but it comes from the slight extension of the wrist and the friction of the fingers as the disc pops out of your hand. You don't need to force it to happen. I will "add a little more wrist to longer putts (40-50') so that I can still putt in a way that's familiar.
4. Use Your Body - The arms don't do much, and for me, I feel that controlling the speed and direction of my belt buckle or mid-section allows me to control the distance of the putt. On really short putts it might be all arm. On a 20' putt it's mostly my torso.
5. Nose Angle - This part is debatable for me, as some will point out that a disc that's nose-down will deflect downward into the chains a bit, and a nose-up disc can sail a little more. In other words, this is one of the things you might actually try not to do. I just try to throw pretty flat, allowing for a little hyzer angle, particularly on longer putts.

I feel I've been able to develop a pretty good putting game relative my ability level, and this video, which I've watched two or three times, has helped quite a bit.

Just don't take every piece of it and try to apply it. Realize that a lot of it is DF's "feels," and you may need to develop your own feels.

There's a saying in golf and other sports that "feel ain't real" and this video has a bit of that. Another example is pros saying they feel they push off with their trail foot through the snap or hit when video clearly shows their trail on their toes or even off the ground before they're in the power pocket.

 

[rakamkram]

I have tried to push putt with straight arm for some time now, put decided to go back to moving my elbow also, so that the motion is more forward and not just pendulum motion. I just can't get enough power to straight arm putt, and it's always very arching instead of almost straight. I still don't try to spin the disc, but with added power from straightening the arm when reaching the basket, I immediately get much more cleaner putts.

But still, I can't figure out a proper way to grip the putter. It feels awkward to putt any fingers inside the rim, but without those it's hard to get consistent grip and power delivery from far. When I put pinkie on the inside wall of the rim, then the putters wobbles and goes even more nose down that without it.

I don't know how many people do this, but I've noticed it especially in videos of McBeth and Barry Schultz. They put their index finger on the outside rim of the disc (like we all used to do with catch frisbees), and I'm pretty sure they fan out their fingers on the underside of the flight plate, no fingers on the inside rim. I do it this way, so the only "grip" I really have on the disc is with my index finger and thumb. Seems to work fine for me. I've even started doing it for shorter upshots, and my accuracy has improved drastically.

 

[nnelson42]

I don't know how many people do this, but I've noticed it especially in videos of McBeth and Barry Schultz. They put their index finger on the outside rim of the disc (like we all used to do with catch frisbees), and I'm pretty sure they fan out their fingers on the underside of the flight plate, no fingers on the inside rim. I do it this way, so the only "grip" I really have on the disc is with my index finger and thumb. Seems to work fine for me. I've even started doing it for shorter upshots, and my accuracy has improved drastically.

McBeth and Schultz putt with their index finger on the bead. Your index finger should run along the rim of the disc with the tip tucked under the disc on the bead. The first horizontal line on your finger as you move down from the tip is the part on the bead.

You need to fan out your fingers on the underside of the disc in order to control the angle of the disc. Your middle, ring and pinky finger should be pushing up on the disc slightly so you are releasing on the proper hyzer angle...one of those not too much, but not too little things. Then by raising your arm upward as you reach out and extend toward the target, that will help to "spring your fingers". That will give you that extra spin/speed/momentum on your putt.

^^^ This was a game-changer for me with figuring out the push putt. Like a lot of people that struggle with this technique, I was having trouble getting enough distance from the push putt. It seemed like the only way to get the disc there was to use my wrist a little. Unfortunately, this makes the disc spray left and right. When you "spring your fingers", that is what gives it the extra distance.

 

[rakamkram]

McBeth and Schultz putt with their index finger on the bead. Your index finger should run along the rim of the disc with the tip tucked under the disc on the bead. The first horizontal line on your finger as you move down from the tip is the part on the bead.

You need to fan out your fingers on the underside of the disc in order to control the angle of the disc. Your middle, ring and pinky finger should be pushing up on the disc slightly so you are releasing on the proper hyzer angle...one of those not too much, but not too little things. Then by raising your arm upward as you reach out and extend toward the target, that will help to "spring your fingers". That will give you that extra spin/speed/momentum on your putt.

^^^ This was a game-changer for me with figuring out the push putt. Like a lot of people that struggle with this technique, I was having trouble getting enough distance from the push putt. It seemed like the only way to get the disc there was to use my wrist a little. Unfortunately, this makes the disc spray left and right. When you "spring your fingers", that is what gives it the extra distance.

Thank you, that was a much, much better description than what I gave. Luckily, that banner of Paul holding his putter is on here so often at the top, it makes for a good reference as to what it actually looks like.