Quest for better form

[Alyjos]

Hi DGCR,

I've been playing for almost two years now. I've been doing quite a bit of research/field work on developing a better backhand throw and would like to request a little feed-back.

Right now I can reach 400+ pretty comfortably backhanding a Distance driver. If conditions are good sometimes I can hit 430. My furthest throw has been 465 on flat ground (Big tailwind)

Drivers: 390-430
Fairways: 375-405
Mid-range: 320-370
Putter: 300-350

I would like some recommendations for taking me to the next levels of backhand.

The link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY0P4IFXaKU

 

[sidewinder22]

Your x-step is really fast and long and putting you into compromising positions/balance and planting into really staggered closed and wide stance almost doing the splits. I would recommend working from a standing delivery like a pitcher or batter and video yourself doing drills.

You need to get your femurs hanging/swiveling under your hips in a more narrow stance to get your shoulder to swing back and forth in pendulum. You are trying push off your rear leg with knee extension instead of plantar flexion and knee flexion. And you land too far behind your front leg, so your posture collapsing and jacking your right shoulder upward and your left shoulder falls, instead of your left shoulder being centered on the front foot to swing right shoulder in a pendulum/dingle arm.

Just realized this was your thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135899

 

[Alyjos]

Hi Sidewinder,

Thanks for the quick response, was hoping I would get your attention with this thread. I'll work on getting some drill videos out this week. It seems like achieving plantar flexion/knee flexion (As seen in the first image) has been something I haven't quite been able to understand, but I'm willing to do the work to get there.

So you activate your hamstrings moreso with your rear leg rather than your quadriceps? That feels a lot different. I've had that habit of extending my knee I think since I started playing disc golf. Would be happy to be in a more correct form.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, definitely more hamstring/calf/glute, than quad. Think about walking/running normally, you wouldn't extend the knee like that, you plantar flex and flex the knee to swing the leg forward with the pelvis.

 

[Alyjos]

Slowed things up a bit, attempting to get my feet closer together. Noticed a small improvement in terms of consistency and general quality of the throw.

I think I might be starting my throw early. I've been watching the hammer drills and I'm beginning to believe that I'm initiating the pull before my weight has shifted entiely.

Anyway here's a still frame image from today's practice. The poor left side of my body doesn't seem to want to get on board. Lol.
https://imgur.com/a4lyuhC

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Alyjos]

Still probably wayyy too wide here (and fast...), but still felt the need to upload it anyway. I've been starting to definitely feel a "squeeze between the knees" which is something I've been missing. I also have been working on bracing a lot more aggressively than I have been.

Anyway, the wide stance here is sorta helping me time my weight-shift a little better while I work on bracing, but I fully acknowledge that it will change very soon.

I guess the main two things that I'm struggling with are getting my hips to turn at the right time. Which if you watch in the video my hips are still turning a bit late in correlation with my pull-through.

The next question is whether or not my weight transfer to my front foot is "good" timing. I ask because it feels good, but then again, I've never thrown a disc over 500 yet so I wouldn't know.

Udisc was saying that my second shot went 447, but google Earth said 470. I kinda wanna believe google earth, because I was throwing off a slight elevation.

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely looking better there. Your backswing is beating your weightshift to the rear foot, so you hit the top of backswing too early and starts going forward early before your weight shift to front foot.

Work on door frame drill and walking your rear foot forward until you start to lose balance/leverage, play around moving your rear foot around and angle and dropping your butt/hips forward so your front heel can tap the ground, but not fully plant on it unless you release from door frame. Take video and post it. Your shoulder stops swinging back too early(so it starts going forward too early ahead of your hips/weightshift) and arm is going around behind your body as you stride to the left too much, so things are a little crossed up instead of moving in parallel and staying out of the way of each other which is probably why you are rushing the backswing because your body is moving to left in the way of your swing space. Door frame drill should help you feel how to load making a linear stride while keeping the arm wider and swinging the shoulder further back/later into plant.

 

[Alyjos]

I'll definitely post a door frame video tomorrow.

Your shoulder stops swinging back too early(so it starts going forward too early ahead of your hips/weightshift) and arm is going around behind your body as you stride to the left too much, so things are a little crossed up instead of moving in parallel and staying out of the way of each other which is probably why you are rushing the backswing because your body is moving to left in the way of your swing space. Door frame drill should help you feel how to load making a linear stride while keeping the arm wider and swinging the shoulder further back/later into plant.

So you're saying that I am rounding at the peak of my reach back?

All things simplified, do I need to wait until my heel touches the ground to initiate my pull-through?

 

[sidewinder22]

Your body would be moving into the revolving door and likely crush yourself.


Pull thru is not a term a use, the arm doesn't pull, it swings/whips. The arm is pulled taut like a pendulum/hammer throw and the lower arm swings the disc from the elbow into and away from center. There can be some variance with heel plant on shorter swings, but on a full swing heel plants/braces causing the elbow to start bending. The disc might be moving forward before the heel plants, but the arm is just a wet noodle lagging behind the body moving forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQYGzTlVetQ#t=7m

 

[Alyjos]

Great feedback there. Didn't get a whole lot of space doing the drill thanks to the wall right there.

 

[sidewinder22]

Alright!

DFD - grab frame just above navel standing up - your grip is too high so your CoG/weight would pull the door frame over top down or fall over, instead of CoG pulling frame forward upright or pulling the bottom of the frame. Drop forward until your arm is level. You should have to walk your rear foot forward to drop and remain pulled taut to frame. Stride the front foot forward, it shouldn't really be on the ground until your about maxed out from the rear foot driving forward. Your shoulder should get pulled much further back toward rear foot, arm/shoulder loose.

 

[sidewinder22]

Dingle Arm should be effortless swinging - You are trying to swing way too hard and collapsing downward into your front hip instead of posting upright on it. Forget about trying to be fast or creating power or rotation. Swing back and forward and/or all the way around your head fluid and effortless! You just need to feel a little whip of where it wants to release or would keep flying if you let go and how your body would juice/pump it.

Note the crease in your front hip, vs no crease in my hip, we are in different tilt to the front leg. Note how open your shoulders are to target with your ear collapsing downward over top into your shoulder vs my shoulders still closed and tons of space between shoulder/s and ear. I'm swinging straight out away from my center, your center is moving with your swing and hooking to the right.

Pay attention to everything from this point to end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=5m37s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=23s

 

[Alyjos]

Hi Sidewinder,

Pulling now just above the navel. I've taken into consideration that in your original door frame video you were standing flat-footed, however, I think you mentioned that you wanted me to start feeling out planting the heel with the lead foot. Trying to stand relatively balanced on my rear foot.

I should also mention I have long legs for my height. I dunno if that will help you out at all, just thought I should mention it.

I might follow up with another form video later as I'm trying to get at least 5-6 days of fieldwork in a week. Not sure how this day is gonna pan out as it looks like it's about to rain.

 

[sidewinder22]

Private vid or incomplete tag.

 

[Alyjos]

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how your stance is staggered really closed and your rear foot is closer to left frame than right frame so your pelvis is turned much further back and everything is leaning over to the right of your rear ankle.

Note how my stance is slightly staggered closed and rear foot is closer to right frame while my butt and rear shoulder are to the left so everything is centered on my rear ankle for all my weight to leverage forward against it. So my butt is wiping forward against the wall behind my heels, while your butt is further away from the wall behind your heels.

 

[Alyjos]

I hope there's less "sinusoidal depleneration" with these drills.

 

[sidewinder22]

Stance is still too staggered from door frame so you are leaning over to the door frame and your rear knee is extended behind your ankle and body turning over toward the door frame and losing hip depth/butt pressure, instead of shifting everything forward and gaining a little depth/butt pressure.

Your rear knee needs to maintain enough flex to be in front of the ankle toward toes(athletic position), so pushing off the toes/plantar flexion moves/leverages everything forward. You can't really get that leverage on everything when knee is behind the ankle. You are making a more backward push off the rear foot which turns the pelvis around instead of shifting forward.

Try putting your rear toes right up the door frame and start moving/walking your rear foot forward to target. Play around your rear foot placement and feel your rear foot, leg and butt weight leveraging against the door frame and pulling/stretching through your torso/arm. Your front shoulder should start inline to your arm/hand.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your rear shoulder/arm is moving too much back and forth linearly with your front shoulder/arm instead moving out of the way. Make your rear side your center to swing the front shoulder/arm from further back and forth linearly from center.

Should feel the hammer pulling your arm out to target from in front of body body rather than behind your backside. Keeping your eyes on the hammer helps keep it in front of you and body more free wheeling. Hammer should also be pulling your shoulder arm taut straight away from target in backswing.

Note how my front shoulder swings all the way from ankle to ankle and my rear arm stays centered. Your front shoulder only swings from center to front ankle, so it's only half the distance.