some questions from a seasoned noob

[jspector]

Hi all....
So I've been playing around 3 or 4 months now and I've gotten to the point where I think I know what I'm doing wrong but not what to so about it so I've got a few basic questions. I can throw from a stand still fairly accurate 125-150' throws. When I add in an x-step I get about the same distance which tells me my x-step is basically doing nothing, if not hurting my throws as they are much less accurate. I think the issue is with my timing so my few quick questions are the following. When doing an x-step at the point where you reach your maximum distance on the pull back, where exactly are your feet? I tend to twist my waist as I take the second step so I am fully pulled back at by the time my 3rd step is about to begin and I think this is causing me problems? I've looked at tons of videos but can't figure it out. Second I want to throw farther, unlike most of the internet who can easily throw a putter 600 feet while drinking a beer, I can not. I am hoping distance will come with time, but many many people tell me "oh yeah 300 feet is EASY". Yet I rarely see 300' throws. So at what is average sort of rate of progression? I'd just like to know if I am doing the right things and am just a slow learner (I don't really have a sports background but I love DG) or if I am not getting better because I am doing something wrong. FWIW I am throwing a Discraft Glide,Comet and Buzz as my main discs and occasionally an avenger SS.

thanks.....

 

[GLong]

Second I want to throw farther, unlike most of the internet who can easily throw a putter 600 feet while drinking a beer

:hfive:

read this right here, especially about grip. that and the hammer pound drills will do more than any other advice on here.

keep throwing the same discs, they are all solid.

 

[gcr_russell]

Unfortunately with that level of distance a Better question than "what am I doing wrong" may be "what am I doing right, so that I can scrap everything else.". A video would be very helpful, and even better may be to find someone at your home course with experience to play a few rounds with and to ask advice and try emulating their form. When I was newer (and even now) I spent a lot oftime watching videos on YouTube to see how the Pros did what they did and tried to copy their form. With only 120-150 feet of distance you may have to unlearn everything you know and try to focus on fundamentals. I dont know what good advice I can really give without seeing some major things you can work on.

Good Luck, and keep throwing. This sport is a blast and addicting. There's nothing more satisfying then making new milestone for your performance too, so try and enjoy yourself out there.

 

[BrotherDave]

I think the issue is with my timing so my few quick questions are the following. When doing an x-step at the point where you reach your maximum distance on the pull back, where exactly are your feet? I tend to twist my waist as I take the second step so I am fully pulled back at by the time my 3rd step is about to begin and I think this is causing me problems?

Ugh, this is hard to do w/o video or very detailed text but I'll try to help. I'd start from scratch with a standstill and one-step. The hammer pound and Beto vids are $$ for this (see link Glong posted) but basically this is what you want to do, IMO.
(vague for brevity's sake)

1. Reach back, ~180 degrees away from target (take your eyes off of it, if you throw correctly the disc will rip out in the same direction your right shoulder is pointed)
2. Take your right (plant foot) and side step forward.
3. As soon as that foot touches ground, start pivoting. Your body should be like a rope that's twisted tight and the pivot begins it's unwinding.
4. Then pull the disc by your chest in a linear direction, keep it level and on the same plane as your shoulders.
5. As the disc pulls by your right pec, now you grip hard and accelerate hard and continuously until the disc literally snaps out of your hand.
6. Follow-through, with forward momentum, keeping your arm and wrist orientation on the same plane as the throw.

It's really a bang-bang-bang kind of motion (step-pivot-hips twist open-shoulders-twist open shoulders-pull disc through-accelerate disc hard-followthrough).

The key to remember, is to always be as fluid and smooth as possible, never strong-arming the disc. You contort your body and use its bio-mechanics and energy created therein to snap the disc out of your hand rather than physically throw the disc by releasing it.

 

[jspector]

Thanks for the advice. I understand this is hard without video sorry 'bout that. I may try to get one up soon. As far as unlearning stuff, I'm sure that is part of the problem. I played for a few years with some of my buddies but basically always strong armed the disc at the time I was happy with how I threw and just loved playing. I recently moved and decided that now I was going to try and learn to play "for real" meaning with teh right technique and what-not so it has been a gradual unlearning process that is still in the making and I know my distance isn't as far as it can or should be right now.
I do talk to all the local "pros" but most of them give "helpful tips" which I try to follow, but a million helpful tips won't help correct bad form, and none of them have said "dude you suck fix this and this and this". Usually they just say"throw flatter" or "just keep trying you'll get it" or " you have to rip it harder". I KNOW those are all important things but as I'm "relearning" the game I really want to start with a solid foundation as I think it will make for better progress in the long run...
i'll check out those links. I believe I've watched them before. What I can't tell is when he does the stand still throw from his pecs whether he is twisting much or is he basically "aiming with the elbow" and just throwing as if there were a pivot at his elbow and the rest of his arms is solid..i'll take another (closer) look..thanks for being patient..I would actually really like to take some videos of myself every few months...maybe a "how is my progress "forum would be fun...maybe not...

 

[sidewinder22]

What I can't tell is when he does the stand still throw from his pecs whether he is twisting much or is he basically "aiming with the elbow" and just throwing as if there were a pivot at his elbow and the rest of his arms is solid.

Power is generated from the core so rotation...yes. It doesn't have to be a lot a twisting, but timed correctly is the most important thing. But more rotation also typically yields more power up to a point. It kind of pivots around the elbow, the elbow slows, but still moving, so your wrist is the fastest moving part at the hit, but if your elbow fully extends before the rip, you will likely hyperextend it, which is bad. Keep your wrist neutral, let the disc bend the wrist.

The snap threads/vids will help you understand the drills better.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21385

 

[drickanderson]

I do talk to all the local "pros" but most of them give "helpful tips" which I try to follow, but a million helpful tips won't help correct bad form, and none of them have said "dude you suck fix this and this and this". Usually they just say"throw flatter" or "just keep trying you'll get it" or " you have to rip it harder".

Don't just talk to a 'pro', watch him throw. Ask if you can play a round with him. You'll pick up more by getting the feel for what a good throw should look and feel like than you'll ever get from people telling you things.

There's a lot of truth to "just keep trying you'll get it." Your muscles are still trying to figure out what it is that you're trying to get them to do, and you'll be amazed at how much more aware you are of what's happening in the last split-second when that disc leaves your hand a year from now.

Learning this takes time (for the VAST majority of us), and I distinctly remember thinking "how hard can this be? If I just do this, and that right it should just work", but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. It takes most people a solid year of really playing to consistently get out to 300', so don't be discouraged.

One last thing. The one thing that took the longest for me to really get was that you should never 'let go' of a drive. It should rip itself out of your hand. I was told this, and I read it, and it just never seemed to sink in. I just couldn't accept the fact that it was necessary for getting good distance. Once I really came to terms with that concept, things changed drastically, so I make sure I point that out to beginners as often as possible.

 

[Rocaholic74]

This is what I was told when I was first learning:

1) Don't throw drivers...they just teach you the wrong things as a newb
2) Learn to throw your putters 200+
3) Learn to throw your mids 200-250+
4) Once you can throw your mids 250+ get yourself a nice easy fairway driver (Leopard/Discraft equivalent)
5) Once you can throw your fairway driver consistantly 250+ get a understable driver
6) Once you can throw your understable driver 250-300+ get yourself a stable/overstable driver (Wraith and above) and work on getting the correct form of throwing true distance

 

[JTacoma03]

The key to remember, is to always be as fluid and smooth as possible, never strong-arming the disc. You contort your body and use its bio-mechanics and energy created therein to snap the disc out of your hand rather than physically throw the disc by releasing it.

This is key. What you want to do with that smooth motion is shift your weight from your back foot to your plant/pivot foot. Like you mentioned, it is all about timing.

Another drill that may be effective in helping you avoiding strong arming the disc (because you can still strong arm even with a properly timed X-step) is to take the approach out of it and stand there - try to throw while actively trying to keep your arm loose and relaxed (non-tensed muscles) until the last possible second. For me personally, my strong arming comes from engaging/locking the muscles in too soon in the pull-through. I think you will be shocked at how far you can throw it without using ANY arm.

 

[Butteredtoast]

One last thing. The one thing that took the longest for me to really get was that you should never 'let go' of a drive. It should rip itself out of your hand. I was told this, and I read it, and it just never seemed to sink in. I just couldn't accept the fact that it was necessary for getting good distance. Once I really came to terms with that concept, things changed drastically, so I make sure I point that out to beginners as often as possible.

Same thing here, I played for over a year until I finally figured it out, and it opened up a whole new range of shots and distance.

How I did it: (Note: This isn't in any way sound long term advice but it did teach me what the rip felt like)

1. Take the widest rim disc you have
2. Grip it as hard as you can and do not under any circumstance let go
3. Now throw it with the absolute most force you can muster
4. I guarantee that disc will come out of your hand in some direction. That feeling as the disc took off is the rip.

The next step would be adjusting your arm speed and grip strength to gain some sort of control. I don't think this step ever ends TBH.