Tenacious EJ
Par Member
Oh no! According to Buzz, the course is now extinct! So sad. I mean, it's still there, but dead I guess? Lol
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Springwood Players Course extinct!
- Thread starter Tenacious EJ
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Tenacious EJ
Par Member
And now it's been deleted completely. Awesome.
There was talk about a wholesale re-design. Do we know if it's gone permanently, or being removed to be re-built?
Which course was this? I haven't deleted any course pages.
I just did a search, including extinct courses, and I couldn't find it.
Springwood Players Course was the name (wasn't it?). It was a course with a bit of controversy over whether or not it was dangerous to the public---and a number of reviewers saying it was.
Or maybe we've got the name wrong?
Springwood Players Course was the name (wasn't it?). It was a course with a bit of controversy over whether or not it was dangerous to the public---and a number of reviewers saying it was.
Or maybe we've got the name wrong?
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
It's the Springwood Player's Course.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=6460&mode=ci
It's been altered slightly, but it's still very much there. I can see it from my front door. Buzz was one of the course designers, but due to complaints from both players and civilians, and due to normal changes one would expect from a new course, his design has been modified. He has been quite resistant to this. Three baskets were moved last week- no reason it should be "extinct" now.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=6460&mode=ci
It's been altered slightly, but it's still very much there. I can see it from my front door. Buzz was one of the course designers, but due to complaints from both players and civilians, and due to normal changes one would expect from a new course, his design has been modified. He has been quite resistant to this. Three baskets were moved last week- no reason it should be "extinct" now.
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All the location info was removed. I'm glad some changes are being made though I hate it for Buzz since he put so much time and effort into the course.
Ugh, I hate when people do that. Now I have to restore the info from a backup which a pain.
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Does it help if I send you the location info? Address and stuff?
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
I might feel bad if he wasn't so bull-headed about everything. He resisted suggestions from day one and continues to believe the course he designed was perfect, despite plenty of evidence otherwise. And now he does this- a man in his 50's acting like he's 5, throwing a tantrum because things didn't go his way. Name me one course that hasn't had to be adjusted once in the ground, not to mention several of the flaws were brought to his attention before a basket was placed or a pad was laid.
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Not arguing with any of that. He still put in the effort but I said a long time ago that something should be done.
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Also I'm not 100% sure it was Buzz who did it. Might have been one of the redesigners since the course status says new fb page, and dgcr course page and was written by someone else
Earlier today the course status was marked "Unplayable", with an explanation that the course is extinct, and the indication that it was last updated by Buzz.
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well then I guess it was him.didn't realize that was up there earlier
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
Yup. Mind you, I've helped on the course as well. I built baskets and poured tees and I've cleared branches and brush, and I want this course to succeed too. My blood and sweat went into it also. I want to play it too, and this just ticks me off.
I'm guessing Buzz did this out of melancholy.
Here's the story so far:
Buzz is an eccentric sort that has been playing DG since the seventies (according to him). In his mind, the chief test of a disc golfer is "how far and straight you can throw it" (paraphrase). A longtime Burlingtonite, he convinced Burlington P&R to let him install a course capable of holding World's caliber tourneys. Director Tony Laws, not knowing anything about disc golf and keen on tourism dollars, agreed. Buzz with the help of his longtime friend, Chuck Rhoades (another long in the tooth veteran of DG), designed Springwood Player's Course, complete with 1000' holes bordering ball fields and neighborhoods.
Alright, the rest of the story most of you know. The course got blasted in reviews (myself included); a redesign became inevitable to address safety issues. Buzz, being the crazy old coot that he is, does not take criticism very well. SPC was his baby, something he poured a lot of work into and one of the few things he had going for him during a dark period of his life. Nevertheless, Buzz surprisingly became open to some ideas on redesign and I helped him make some major changes (move 8's basket out of the brier filled ravine, new tees for #3 to prevent discs from flying into the softball field). Meanwhile, the group Buzz selected to handle tourneys at SPC, the Burlington Area Disc Golf Club, led by Jon Owens, Jayson Prutzman, and Mike Avillion had their own redesign ideas. *cue dramatic music*
The Owens group decided to redesign everything, sort of. A ton of tweaks (tees/baskets relocated) done primarily for par/distances, a new #3 that brings back the problematic tees near the softball field, #9 and #10 completely redone (two of the least problematic holes) for facilitate tournament play by creating front and back 9 loops, renumbering of every hole, and the combination of holes 11 and 12 into one 700'+ hole that plays continuously towards the soccer field. IMO, the Owens' proposal was a lot of work to create or not address much of the same proximity problems of the original course. BADG's ideas found traction though thanks to a considerable BADG and friends of BADG campaign, including lip service paid by David Wiggins, Jr., Ronnie Huffman, Jr., and DGCR's own favorite son, Robert Leonard aka MTL. Buzz is basically feeling like Caesar on the Ides of March at this point (Et tu, BADG-te?) and battle lines are being drawn.
Since the two sides can't come to agreement, Tony Laws (P&R director) calls a meeting to hammer out a redesign compromise. As a neutral attendee of this meeting, this is a fairly unbiased account: Buzz and Rhoades are slightly outnumbered thanks to Huffman's presence and their opinions and objections are repeatedly cut-off by Mike Avillion and Owens. Buzz, normally a cantankerous battleship of emotional outbursts, is eerily calm, like a man awaiting the gallows and resigned to his fate. Occasionally, Buzz randomly attacks BADG passive-aggressively as a last-ditch salvo of his pride. Rhoades is fairly active in disagreement and generally seems flustered. My critique of a couple of Owens' changes are not refuted but generally fall on deaf ears. Occasionally, Owens questions my credentials in a vague ad hominem. For the most part, I sat and enjoyed the fireworks that culminated with Avillion literally shouting at Buzz for suggesting that an honorary BADG membership (normal value: $15) should have been given to him as courtesy for being the course's designer. After this, much sniping and eye-rolling by all colors the conversation and after three hours of petty squabbling Laws and park manager Dean Sessoms look like they're ready to kill themselves. Buzz and Rhoades acquiesce to all but four major changes and the meeting ends gridlocked over this.
Laws basically said 'Screw it' and went half and half on the four points of disagreement to appease both sides. Now it appears that BADG are setting about enacting their changes, with or without Buzz's involvement. They've put a basket in on the softball hole to renew chuckers' chances of hitting a softball player again, moved 12's basket from around the corner and onto the eroded slope of the soccer field, and moved 18's basket towards the ditch.
Thus ends your drama update.
Here's the story so far:
Buzz is an eccentric sort that has been playing DG since the seventies (according to him). In his mind, the chief test of a disc golfer is "how far and straight you can throw it" (paraphrase). A longtime Burlingtonite, he convinced Burlington P&R to let him install a course capable of holding World's caliber tourneys. Director Tony Laws, not knowing anything about disc golf and keen on tourism dollars, agreed. Buzz with the help of his longtime friend, Chuck Rhoades (another long in the tooth veteran of DG), designed Springwood Player's Course, complete with 1000' holes bordering ball fields and neighborhoods.
Alright, the rest of the story most of you know. The course got blasted in reviews (myself included); a redesign became inevitable to address safety issues. Buzz, being the crazy old coot that he is, does not take criticism very well. SPC was his baby, something he poured a lot of work into and one of the few things he had going for him during a dark period of his life. Nevertheless, Buzz surprisingly became open to some ideas on redesign and I helped him make some major changes (move 8's basket out of the brier filled ravine, new tees for #3 to prevent discs from flying into the softball field). Meanwhile, the group Buzz selected to handle tourneys at SPC, the Burlington Area Disc Golf Club, led by Jon Owens, Jayson Prutzman, and Mike Avillion had their own redesign ideas. *cue dramatic music*
The Owens group decided to redesign everything, sort of. A ton of tweaks (tees/baskets relocated) done primarily for par/distances, a new #3 that brings back the problematic tees near the softball field, #9 and #10 completely redone (two of the least problematic holes) for facilitate tournament play by creating front and back 9 loops, renumbering of every hole, and the combination of holes 11 and 12 into one 700'+ hole that plays continuously towards the soccer field. IMO, the Owens' proposal was a lot of work to create or not address much of the same proximity problems of the original course. BADG's ideas found traction though thanks to a considerable BADG and friends of BADG campaign, including lip service paid by David Wiggins, Jr., Ronnie Huffman, Jr., and DGCR's own favorite son, Robert Leonard aka MTL. Buzz is basically feeling like Caesar on the Ides of March at this point (Et tu, BADG-te?) and battle lines are being drawn.
Since the two sides can't come to agreement, Tony Laws (P&R director) calls a meeting to hammer out a redesign compromise. As a neutral attendee of this meeting, this is a fairly unbiased account: Buzz and Rhoades are slightly outnumbered thanks to Huffman's presence and their opinions and objections are repeatedly cut-off by Mike Avillion and Owens. Buzz, normally a cantankerous battleship of emotional outbursts, is eerily calm, like a man awaiting the gallows and resigned to his fate. Occasionally, Buzz randomly attacks BADG passive-aggressively as a last-ditch salvo of his pride. Rhoades is fairly active in disagreement and generally seems flustered. My critique of a couple of Owens' changes are not refuted but generally fall on deaf ears. Occasionally, Owens questions my credentials in a vague ad hominem. For the most part, I sat and enjoyed the fireworks that culminated with Avillion literally shouting at Buzz for suggesting that an honorary BADG membership (normal value: $15) should have been given to him as courtesy for being the course's designer. After this, much sniping and eye-rolling by all colors the conversation and after three hours of petty squabbling Laws and park manager Dean Sessoms look like they're ready to kill themselves. Buzz and Rhoades acquiesce to all but four major changes and the meeting ends gridlocked over this.
Laws basically said 'Screw it' and went half and half on the four points of disagreement to appease both sides. Now it appears that BADG are setting about enacting their changes, with or without Buzz's involvement. They've put a basket in on the softball hole to renew chuckers' chances of hitting a softball player again, moved 12's basket from around the corner and onto the eroded slope of the soccer field, and moved 18's basket towards the ditch.
Thus ends your drama update.
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
You know, I really wish Tony Laws had listened to me when I called and spoke to him before a single basket or tee was placed. I bet he kinda does too.
The meeting was so absurd. It felt like rival factions of popular girls arguing at the lunch table. I've never felt more ashamed to be a disc golfer in my life. Neither side is particularly receptive of differences of opinions. Sadly, Buzz actually seems the least intractable and was on his way of enacting decent changes before BADG made it a competition.
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I feel that the park itself just might not be sustainable for DG. Sometimes a park just shouldnt have a course because it conflicts with other park activities and just isn't sustainable with the damage that can be caused by a warp speed driver. I wish the best for the course but finding another property that is better suited to our sport to relocate the baskets to might be the best option in the long run
