Start hip rotation by your left knee or arm?

[RowingBoats]

Man, I know SW used a hammer to learn how to drive a disc...

Guess he also used one to learn how to drive a point home lol.

 

[crd 81]

Whether or not he realizes it, Slingshot shifts laterally before he rotates. It's not strictly a spin.

Essentially, his body is doing something different than what his mind is thinking.

 

[SocraDeez]

You can honestly throw pretty far & still be a bug squisher. The motion pretty much amounts to forcing the front hip to maximally clear, which of course produces a big chunk of the power in the disc golf swing.

For a player that wasn't getting a full front hip clear in their swing or sequencing it properly, "making it happen" with the rear leg turn/ drive/ bug squish sure does feel powerful and true. This is probably another reason why the squish-the-bug-instruction is so popular & persistent across multiple sports now.

You will never throw far & accurately as a bug squisher. Think about it: the variability of initiating the movement with an active rear leg drive has to be much higher than the variability of releasing the pressure you've created into the ground. This is the point of this (still terrible) analogy.

Here is a terrible analogy. I'm sorry but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment, and we have to work with what we got. Have you ever twisted up a curtain cord? Like really twisted it up? You know, as part of the Good Fight against Boredom?

When you release the pressure from your pinch and just let it go - pop! - the cord starts spinning pretty quickly as it releases all that tension you created by twisting it up. Try it again. But this time - actively rotate your pinch to the right as you release it. It doesn't work as well/ spin as fast. Why?

George Kenneth Griffey Jr. might be the Greatest-Of-All-Time clobberer of off-speed pitches. To hit an off-speed pitch, some batters lengthen their stride into their frontside plant to account for the extra time the ball takes getting to the plate. Not Griffey Jr. Not Mr. Sweet Swing. He keeps the stride into the plant the same, and then he waits on the pitch.

How does Ken Griffey Jr. wait on the pitch? The answer to this might be one of the few actual "Secret Techniques" to throwing far and well.

 

[Bush122]

If you look closely at the Griffey gif you can really see him just pause on that front leg, loaded and ready to go. Incredible athleticism to just leave his body in such an explosive state while also being so relaxed. Certainly drives home the power that comes from the ground compression.

Also can see his back heel off the ground. Not exactly sure how you could spin your leg without any pressure on your instep...

Oh well. Glad I have this forum to direct me the right way!

 

[RowingBoats]

You can honestly throw pretty far & still ********

This is really the root of almost all of the weird contentious discussion that goes on here lol. People make significant progress with a new idea, extrapolate that into a belief that it will continue without further revelation, and argue about it.

 

[crd 81]

You can honestly throw pretty far & still be a bug squisher. The motion pretty much amounts to forcing the front hip to maximally clear, which of course produces a big chunk of the power in the disc golf swing.

For a player that wasn't getting a full front hip clear in their swing or sequencing it properly, "making it happen" with the rear leg turn/ drive/ bug squish sure does feel powerful and true. This is probably another reason why the squish-the-bug-instruction is so popular & persistent across multiple sports now.

You will never throw far & accurately as a bug squisher. Think about it: the variability of initiating the movement with an active rear leg drive has to be much higher than the variability of releasing the pressure you've created into the ground. This is the point of this (still terrible) analogy.

I see the confusion. There needs to be a scale of distances that shows the discrepancies between "bug-squish" distance and proper shifting.

 

[sidewinder22]

I see the confusion. There needs to be a scale of distances that shows the discrepancies between "bug-squish" distance and proper shifting.

 

[Surly Bastage]

After all the reading, watching videos {pros throwing, pros teaching, SW, Overthrow, Slingshot, etc.), practicing, recording my throw, practicing more, I still do not use my core well enough, so these type of threads really interest me. They also confuse me.

I know feel ain't real so what some describe they do is not actually what they do - pros are about the worst for this - which can lead to advice that is probably not the best, so I try to keep this in mind when taking in any teachings.

The don't squish the bug argument is very compelling and I have been trying to follow that teaching. Then Slingshot comes along squishing the bug and throwing far so I consider it.

In doing so, I came across this article that I thought was very interesting :

https://www.dacbaseball.com/to-squish-or-to-not-squish-the-bug/

"And, not to be forgotten, squish the bug or don't squish the bug, it really doesn't matter."

Thoughts?

 

[timothy42b]

After all the reading, watching videos {pros throwing, pros teaching, SW, Overthrow, Slingshot, etc.), practicing, recording my throw, practicing more, I still do not use my core well enough, so these type of threads really interest me. They also confuse me.

Amen!

 

[Dochammer]

I'm a Bradley Williams fan boy, and think his form is one of the cleanest in the game. I find this clip of him demonstrating a standstill to be a prime example of how to engage the hips, and supports what Sidewinder22 (and others) has been saying here exceptionally well.

https://streamable.com/yp2wlv

It's not the greatest watch, but here is the full lesson from which the clip was pulled from (starts around where the clip is from): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_FJEWNDXX4&t=407s

As aside, I tried mixing in some "bug squishing" in my field work this week. I found I generate more spin (like a figure skater), and noticed a drop in my power and accuracy. I would say with squishing the bug I was about 20% my normal standstill distance.

 

[Dochammer]

The don't squish the bug argument is very compelling and I have been trying to follow that teaching. Then Slingshot comes along squishing the bug and throwing far so I consider it.

If you watch how Slingshot's throw for reals (dude rips), he doesn't squish the bug. https://youtu.be/pay_pKkjG10?t=36
Which I think is part of the frustration, at least for me, is that he does not do what he teaches. Or he is squishing bugs and I know nothing!

 

[drk_evns]

The amount of people out there teaching to spin/twist/turn the hips right now is mind boggling. It's really unfortunate.

I don't know which is worse:

The people who teach spinning and can throw well (they just don't understand or can't articulate what they're doing)

-or-

The people who teach spinning and can't throw at all (totally delusional cult leader—or beginner with lots of misinformation?)

 

[crd 81]

SW posted these videos elsewhere and I think they are pretty conclusive on whether or not someone should "squish the bug" in baseball pitching/hitting and the disc golf throw. Spoiler alert--they shouldn't.

 

[Sard0nyx]

SW posted these videos elsewhere and I think they are pretty conclusive on whether or not someone should "squish the bug" in baseball pitching/hitting and the disc golf throw. Spoiler alert--they shouldn't.

Does driving the triple extension mean that you should be thinking about pushing up with your back leg off the X-step? I don't know how to generate more ground forces as I'm traveling down the tee pad. The weight on my back side usually feels pretty weak, so I don't have much left to push off.

 

[sidewinder22]

Does driving the triple extension mean that you should be thinking about pushing up with your back leg off the X-step? I don't know how to generate more ground forces as I'm traveling down the tee pad. The weight on my back side usually feels pretty weak, so I don't have much left to push off.

Not really pushing or driving upward. Driving forward after you squat/fall/drop and leg angles forward(shifting from behind you). Think of your leg more as a pogo stick that changes angles against the ground \ / as it compresses and extends.

 

[sidewinder22]

After all the reading, watching videos {pros throwing, pros teaching, SW, Overthrow, Slingshot, etc.), practicing, recording my throw, practicing more, I still do not use my core well enough, so these type of threads really interest me. They also confuse me.

I know feel ain't real so what some describe they do is not actually what they do - pros are about the worst for this - which can lead to advice that is probably not the best, so I try to keep this in mind when taking in any teachings.

The don't squish the bug argument is very compelling and I have been trying to follow that teaching. Then Slingshot comes along squishing the bug and throwing far so I consider it.

In doing so, I came across this article that I thought was very interesting :

https://www.dacbaseball.com/to-squish-or-to-not-squish-the-bug/

"And, not to be forgotten, squish the bug or don't squish the bug, it really doesn't matter."

Thoughts?

The pros are actually showing the correct motion slowed down which is a forward move.

If you squish the bug and spin the rear foot out, then you are losing leverage.




vs

 

[dehaas]

After a round with some buddies I stuck around the course and was working on my backhand timing. Couple things really started to click, and I just don't see how people say the spin and throw is legit.

I'd pretty much been practicing the dingle arm throw and not even really taking a small step forward, so that was the focus today. I found out real quick it worked best when I was getting a bit more hip turn initially, so my left cheek (rhbh) was facing the target as the "backswing" was beginning. That movement with a little bit of left knee bend gets the butt sticking out a bit and you can feel the pressure on the outside of the left foot. You don't even really have to do much with the right foot, almost just pick it up and let it drift targetward a bit, toe hits, can gets crushed, and you can really feel the compression of the front leg.

I think the most difficult part is slowing the backswing down so the disc is still lagging behind once you get right foot compression and then the brace. Or it seemed like in order to make the backswing as slow as possible you really really had to focus on a passive throwing arm and let the hip turn move the hand and disc back on its own.

People tend to think of griplocks as late releases, but to me it seems like the opposite? Not necessarily an early release, but the disc coming forward prematurely compared to the brace, so once your front leg is actually braced the disc is way too far along the throwing lotion and once you pinch down on your grip it ejects out at 45 degrees. If the disc was further back once you were braced and then pinched down it would release straight targetward. Does that make sense?

 

[timothy42b]

The amount of people out there teaching to spin/twist/turn the hips right now is mind boggling. It's really unfortunate.

I don't know which is worse:

The people who teach spinning and can throw well (they just don't understand or can't articulate what they're doing)

The most basic exercise on that site is to tuck and spin, with loose arm and with a step onto the forward foot. It's possible to do that as squish the bug which is probably the intent, or as a braced front leg, or anywhere in between. I'd guess it's not surprising that people can get results, especially since videos of Paige doing her helicopter spin and Ezra are held up as examples.

Add some natural athleticism (something I lack) and when they start to throw hard they probably do it correctly.

I watched Ezra frame by frame after the earlier discussion, and it looks to me like there is no deliberate tuck into the power pocket. His arm stays straight until the shoulder starts to rotate and then if the arm doesn't fight it, the tuck happens by geometry. That's different from the tuck and spin teaching. I think.

 

[sidewinder22]

Seems to makes sense why those that advocate leaning back and reaching out with the front leg also advocate spinning and argue against linear drive and bracing.

 

[Brychanus]

People tend to think of griplocks as late releases, but to me it seems like the opposite? Not necessarily an early release, but the disc coming forward prematurely compared to the brace, so once your front leg is actually braced the disc is way too far along the throwing lotion and once you pinch down on your grip it ejects out at 45 degrees. If the disc was further back once you were braced and then pinched down it would release straight targetward. Does that make sense?

Was paging around and it was good to see this. I realized this over the past couple weeks of form rebuilding and this is how I explain it to people who care.