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Starting Over

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DustBorne

Newbie
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
17
Hey all,

I have been working on form for about 2 years now. Feeling like I have to restart again.... I'm topping out about 380' on really good throws, but rarely happens. More like 325'-350' consistently.

Here is me throwing an actual drive. Sidewinder roughly 350'. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bycrv9Ke5os_dzZMWEhqUU8xdHc/view?usp=sharing


Here is something I'm trying in my basement.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bycrv9Ke5os_eXJLcG8wVnFHUTA/view?usp=sharing

Throw 1 = Rock forward, rock back, throw. A standstill basically.

Throw 2 = This is me attempting the 1-leg drill.

Throw 3 = Very Slow and controlled X-step throw.


Obviously in the first video I'm not bracing properly. I can't figure out how to make my body do it. What else am I doing wrong though?



In the 2nd video, what is there I can work on?
 
1. Put shoes on.

2. Don't move your rear foot backward to start the backswing in a standstill, you are spinning out already before you have done anything. Your rear foot should be firmly in the ground for the backswing and vice versa.

3. Your front heel spins out clockwise open as you plant it, instead of your heel planting forward of your toes(from behind you)... Crush the Can. You also spin on your toes, so your heel spins even more backward in the finish, your whole body is actually spinning around your front toes, instead of dropping all your weight into the heel from the toes and pivoting your body centered on the heel.

4. You are trying to pull your elbow in and dropping it down into your body from your shoulder during the swing. The elbow should swing in the same vertical plane/just below the shoulder start to finish. Your shoulder/s/body should swing the elbow/arm/disc. Pretend you have a table or pane of glass underneath your shoulders around nips and your elbow/arm needs to swing above the table and not break the glass pane all the way through.

5. One Leg Drill - Your front foot needs to be at least 90 degrees closed perpendicular to the target, yours is facing the target open too much. You also have too much weight/pressure on the rear toes tipping you over forward in the backswing - try actually having the rear foot airborne so your butt and rear leg swivel back and forth to counter your arm/disc swing.









 
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Question

So i have adjusted my form a lot, but now I'm jamming my hip/folding over the top, to the point where i'm getting some pain in my knee and hip. Do you have a video on how to fix that specific issue.

I have other problems as well, but I just want to work on one thing at a time. If you need video I can try to get some posted.
 
Try the one leg drill setup. Film and post this to get guidance on your balance...it usually takes a few revisions to get it decently. Posting/feedback/revisions are often faster and less frustrating than throwing from one leg incorrectly for hours without "getting it".

If you set up forward and on one leg you can't jam yourself, and you'll also leave your rear leg completely so it can't push you into the front hip as badly. I really think this is a good/guaranteed route to not having that hip jamming issue...although it takes different amounts of time/practice to click for different people.

 
Yeah I think one leg drill is a really good option for you.

Your plant leg and hip are acting like a wall, stopping your momentum dead. You need to get way more vertical/upright feeling on the leg, it'll feel like your pelvis is another foot or more closer to the front of the teepad while you swing. It'll feel almost out of control because you're so forward and there'll be more rotation...but if you trust your butt and left leg and the other non-throwing half of your body to act as a counterbalance you'll stay upright while swinging.

So the brace should be an axis that you spin around, and you let yourself flow around...rather than a wall that you slam into.

The one leg drill will force you to get that much more upright and laterally targetward over the leg, which will be very different from how you are throwing now.

A good way to get into the one leg drill starting position is to walk forward slowly but normally. When you are on your right foot and your left foot is just leaving the ground, toes dragging, then stop. The left knee should be dangling under your left hip and your left toes should be just gently touching the ground. If you then bend your right leg a bit and have some athletic tilt over the foot/toes, then this is likely a good starting point for one leg drill.

Edit: Another thing to be aware of, is your plant step is pretty leftward which blocks off your body even more. When you're upright on the plant leg you should feel like your hips/pelvis, torso, and shoulders all swing very together compared to what you are doing now with the hips blocked off and upper body opening.
 
You spun through so that's better.

But you're overly restricting yourself a lot. Also that angle is a little tricky for me...I never get to see throws from the front since either the camera or myself would be in huge danger. I'm much more accustomed to a side view. As well a view from back of teepad/targetward is helpful to see your alignment, in a similar way to how this clip shows.

Don't restrict yourself by not letting the back foot on the ground. Yes it's a "one leg drill", but I don't care if the left foot touches down and would register a bit of weight if a scale was under it. Just don't actually shift your weight onto that leg and push from that leg. You'll see SW has his toes on the ground, and as he turns back the foot rotates heel-down. This is fine and helps you balance better. Right now you're trying to balance completely on the plant leg and hold your back leg up that it's taking all your concentration.

As well because you are trying to keep that foot off the ground, once you're at the backswing, which you are mostly using arm for, you can then go frame by frame and see your arm and shoulders open fully while your hips stay in the same place. Once your right arm has swung around then your foot releases from the ground and you spin/follow through.

So to start with, let your rear toes touch down, let the foot/leg rotate with your body as you turn back with your hips. Also I would recommend swinging something heavy back and forth, and eventually swinging through with it to see how your left leg and arm counterweight your body as you follow through and extend the right leg naturally. You don't need to actually throw this way, but having something heavy in your hand/arm so that you swing and control/counter the weight rather than just whipping your arm will help.

Lots of stuff in that drill video is subtle, but done for a reason. The more you can copy every single body position in the setup, and let yourself follow through naturally as you swing and then assess how closely it looks to that video, the better direction you'll head in. The follow through is a result of your balance during the swing, but you absolutely need to be set up initially correctly and backswing in the correct sequence and control...starting with hips to turn everything back and create room for the swing.
 
You're blocking out your body, I bet you need to get another 6" or so laterally targetward...side view will help see this too. As you start moving forward, your head is leading everything. You're thinking rotate with the upper body, and the torso turns to throw the disc while the hips/femur get blocked out and there's no lower body rotation.

If you watch SW in the drill video, he lets the left foot turn and fully touch down, and his body/spine actually does move away from the target a few inches. It doesn't feel like you weight the left foot intentionally...but there is definitely a bit of lateral movement of the body back. And then it moves onto the plant foot, and the butt/lower body are able to be cleared away from the target by the extending plant leg.

Basically you need to get even more toward the target before and as you throw...this will let you be ON TOP of the plant leg rather than crash into it, and that will lead to a much less restricted and upper body only rotation feeling. You'll have to let it happen and trust that the rear leg will keep you balanced as you swing through. Don't crash/slam into the right leg and don't try to throw/turn/rotate the upper body first.
 
r-e-l-a-x.jpg

Stop actively bending your front knee/squatting in the setup and starting all tight and scrunched up and static and trying to manipulate the disc in a certain position. Stand upright on the front leg and let the shoulder/arm/disc hang and swing it back and forth perpetually and feel how to settle into the dynamic motion like throwing a ball on string. You need to be upright on the front leg, it will feel very stupidly outrageously upright to you at first, you should feel like you can stand forever on one leg totally relaxed without burning out your core muscles, the rear tippy toes just maintain balance, and your rear arm trying not to spill your beverage.

There should only be some very slight flex in the knee - just enough to not lock out the knee, which would be impossible to maintain balance on. Take a full pre-swing/address before you start the backswing. I also don't recommend the disc going perpendicular to your shoulders in the one video with your hand above the disc in the backswing. The hand should be underneath the disc so the disc plane matches the shoulder plane, should feel more like tossing horseshoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-KVWfUkQ3s#t=3m14s





 
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@slowplastic - I feel the blocking my body out. The issue is I feel as though I can't clear my front hip without either turning plant foot toes much more towards the target or having my rear leg come out around. Neither of these things seem to happen naturally before the disc ejects so I'm definitely not understanding how to avoid that.

I see what you mean by he's moving laterally towards the target before the hips start rotating. I will see if I can replicate.

The not throw/turn/rotating the upper body will probably be the hardest thing to stop.

@sidewinder22 - I will stand more upright, do a full swing, and wont' hold the disc like that anymore. I was doing it to try to stop pulling/rotating with the upper body as much, but i'm sure it's a bad habit I shouldn't start. Relaxing is hard when you're videoing yourself XD.

I should be able to get some time in today. Thank you both.
 
Yeah that's good you can feel/identify that you're getting slammed/blocked into the hip.

Get video from the side of the teepad today if you can, face-on to your body.

You need to get laterally toward the front of the teepad more, so that if you draw a line straight upward from your foot on a standstill/one leg shot your lower spine is over the foot. This will allow your body to pivot over the leg. Right now your right hip will be over the foot, meaning your spine is behind the foot and not balanced on the foot, and all of your weight is held behind the foot since your hip is acting as a wall/barrier that isn't letting your weight come farther forward.

Note that the more momentum you have into the throw, this axis will be tilted a bit to the foot since it's your dynamic balance. One leg drill is good for spotting set-up errors because it starts with basically no added momentum, so the balance should be vertical over the foot.

This will feel way more free/out of control and almost like you'll let yourself be too far forward or swing through. It'll feel very different in a few ways but less restricted.
 
Not Slacking

I have tried taking video a couple times from the side, but while trying to move laterally, I end up just sticking my butt out towards the target. It looks bad, it feels bad, and it's just not right , so I"m still working on the lateral movement. Once i feel like I have made some legitimate progress I'll post something again.
 
Try shuffle stepping sideways, then skipping sideways continually. No thoughts of turning back, backswing, etc. Just continually moving sideways in balance over your feet. This should prevent the turning back/walking backwards thing. You will be more backward during a throwing motion though, but if what you're doing currently feels bad then go to the other extreme of just moving laterally and seeing how that feels.
 
SSDD

Still constantly working on form when I can. But doing the same garbage I always have. Never quite figured out how to get up on that front leg, and got into playing tournaments so I quit trying to adjust my throw. Not really planning on playing any tournaments this year so I'm back to obsessing about form.

I figured out how to throw without feeling like my hip is going to get destroyed, and not being sore all the time so that has been helpful.

Here are two throws from two different views.

Rear View
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xs9LAG-kEmcbbPx8uhSDQyDzTs3V9_Wf/view?usp=sharing

Side View
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sznqnKtzq3p5SF9oIIwyniObb6P8WbyT/view?usp=sharing


Do you think i should just revisit the previous advise given in this thread or is there something else i should prioritize?
 
Note how your stride/push yourself over to the left tee side. Striding straight and squatting back into rear hip - hogan power move/buttwipe will probably feel going to the right to you.
Revisiting Door Frame Drills should help.



 
Getting the concept

I spent a couple hours on these drills. I'm feeling and understanding the concepts of clearing the rear hip and hips rotating in place, but what's the approach here? Do I just spend some time doing the drills everyday and hope it finds it's way into my swing?

Also when I throw should I hug the left side of the teepad to try to force myself to move more laterally/right?
 
You need to actually implement changes into your throw, it will probably feel weird at first. Exaggerate things back and forth, find your sweet spot by experimentation. I normally recommend keeping home drill practice short, 10-20 min, some drills are just a conceptual thing and not really needed to be practiced. Record and review everything including drills - make sure you are doing the drills correctly.

Practice moving left to right(pure right to left hyzers) and also practice left to right down the teepad throwing big anhyzer and hyzer-flips out to the left and turning over to the right.

Throwing Drills - practice One Leg Drill, and Open to Closed Drill and "standstill" and moving perpendicular to target - e walk drill.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogonOY1DoHU#t=40m
"Tiny changes.... for most of you, you have to exaggerate things so far to get that machine to say the numbers it's supposed to that you would probably never stay with it. When I finally get someone to do what's right, they say, that can't be right. My answer to them is that well, you weren't a very good player to begin with, so I wouldn't trust what you felt anyway."
 
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