Success of high level athletes in disc golf...

[SonicGuy]

Agreed. Long and limber over big and burly.


It's like having a wide receiver vs a linebacker.

Simon vs askren is not a wide receiver vs a linebacker. It is the waterboy vs the star quarterback.

the problem is that everyone posting here would get spanked by mcbeth or any top player, and hearing that they are betas in the grand scheme of things makes everyone butthurt. But the truth is in fact that our sport is the smallest of ponds and our biggest fish would get eaten by any fish in any of the bigger ponds.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Simon vs askren is not a wide receiver vs a linebacker. It is the waterboy vs the star quarterback.

the problem is that everyone posting here would get spanked by mcbeth or any top player, and hearing that they are betas in the grand scheme of things makes everyone butthurt. But the truth is in fact that our sport is the smallest of ponds and our biggest fish would get eaten by any fish in any of the bigger ponds.

You can make that assertion all you want but have no facts to back it up.

 

[AndyJB]

There's too many variables to really make any kind of conclusion.

My brother played baseball in college. He's excelled at sports his entire life, and is currently a Marine Corps jet pilot. I was OK in football and excel at powerlifting. I beat him by a ridiculous amount anytime we play, and both of us have been playing since we were kids. I don't know if I play actual rounds more often than he does, but I put in a lot more putting practice than him and I play tournaments whereas he does not.

To take it further, look at a pro like Joe Rovere. He looks like an athlete. Walks like an athlete. Carries himself like an athlete. If someone pointed to him on the street and said "that guy runs Ironman triathalons" or "that guy is an olympic wrestler" you wouldn't bat an eye and assume that person was correct. But he gets beat the younger and less athletic looking guys (McBeth's baseball career notwithstanding.) As has been pointed out, Joe has a promising and demanding career and a family. So it's impossible to say how could he COULD be...and he's already really, really good.

So the OPs post isn't without merit, but then neither are the rebuttals from other posters about it being a pretty hard conclusion to make.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Since new records are being set in established sports each year, it would appear that even they haven't yet gotten the most athletic players possible.

 

[DiscFifty]

Let me introduce you to Jamie Mosier. Dude just won against Johne McCray and Eric McCabe @ The Towne Lake Open. I met him at a tournament, super nice guy and is simply a beast on the disc golf course.

 

[TruthHurts]

Were you talking about me in the Op?

I was a D2 pitcher with an 87-91 mph sidearm fastball. Tried to make it pro but never could stay healthy long enough for anything than a half season of Indy ball.

Has being a decent athlete in a skill based sport helped learn disc golf? Sure, I throw forehand drives over 400 and I've only been trying hard at diac golf for about a year and a half. Can throw some good overhead and et out of trouble shots too.

But I still get beaten by a stroke or two at league by old guys who can barely throw 300 but don't miss any putts under 30ft.

Have you devoted the same amount of time to training disc golf as you did to baseball? My contention isn't that a major league pitcher would be able to immediately smoke everybody in disc golf just on talent alone, but that with the same dedication to disc golf as was given to baseball, they would outperform the majority of disc golfers, and ultimately eclipse everyone.

 

[TruthHurts]

Since new records are being set in established sports each year, it would appear that even they haven't yet gotten the most athletic players possible.

There is no motivation for a natural athlete to pursue a career in disc golf. It is not respected, or even acknowledged as a sport outside of the community. It is a poor financial investment to choose s career in disc golf, if one was talented enough athletically to choose which sport they wanted to pursue as a career.

Records are being broken in other sports all the time, but you can't forget the difficulty level in all those sports has also increased. I agree that disc golf isn't at the point where a "once in a generation athlete" would really be able to shine, and more than likely never will be. But to think that a sport that's been around for less than 40 years, and has no organized system in place to develop talent, let alone motivation to do so, is even close to having the best talent represented at the top of the sport is ridiculous. The very fact that there are guys(Brinster) who can win the most prestigious tournament in the sport(USDGC), while working a full-time job most of the year, in addition to raising a family says just about all that needs to be said.

I'm not knocking Brinster, he deserves enormous amounts of respect for his accomplishments, but he pretty clearly proves my point.

 

[TruthHurts]

Lizotte is the prototype build to throw, Askren is not.

I don't think a guy like Bo Jackson has the "prototype" build to throw a disc far, but I believe that if he were still in his 20s-30s, he would put the distance record well out of reach. Even at his current age, I think he could break the record. Watch Glenn Patterson throw a disc, then try to explain to me how the "prototypical" body type matters. Athletic people find ways to get the most out of their bodies.

There comes a point where raw power negates technique. Just look at the progression of Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

 

[bnbanbury]

There is no motivation for a natural athlete to pursue a career in disc golf. It is not respected, or even acknowledged as a sport outside of the community. It is a poor financial investment to choose s career in disc golf, if one was talented enough athletically to choose which sport they wanted to pursue as a career.

Records are being broken in other sports all the time, but you can't forget the difficulty level in all those sports has also increased. I agree that disc golf isn't at the point where a "once in a generation athlete" would really be able to shine, and more than likely never will be. But to think that a sport that's been around for less than 40 years, and has no organized system in place to develop talent, let alone motivation to do so, is even close to having the best talent represented at the top of the sport is ridiculous. The very fact that there are guys(Brinster) who can win the most prestigious tournament in the sport(USDGC), while working a full-time job most of the year, in addition to raising a family says just about all that needs to be said.

I'm not knocking Brinster, he deserves enormous amounts of respect for his accomplishments, but he pretty clearly proves my point.

There's a big difference between saying that disc golf is not going to be able to draw athletes that could compete as professionals in other sports and saying that the current professionals aren't natural athletes. You started the thread talking about a theoretical division 2 baseball player and there are a number of disc golfers who have comparable resumes to that in "traditional" athletics (Feldberg, Koling, Schweberger, Reading, Gallops).

Personally I have always had athletic activities come easily to me. I was on the mound for opening day all 4 years for the high school varsity team culminating in several div 2 offers. I was the starting 3 for the varsity baskeball team. As an adult I picked up jui jitsu and thai boxing and excelled. However, despite putting a lot of time into disc golf I have not found nearly the same level of success playing this sport and the fact of the matter is you just can't predict how an athlete's abilities are going to translate into another sport.

If Brinster "proves" your point then Michael Jordan "proves" the opposite point. No one would argue if you said he was the greatest athlete on the planet at one point and yet he strove to make it in baseball and could not and for that matter said he would like to compete in golf and cannot despite pouring hours into both.

 

[bnbanbury]

I don't think a guy like Bo Jackson has the "prototype" build to throw a disc far, but I believe that if he were still in his 20s-30s, he would put the distance record well out of reach. Even at his current age, I think he could break the record. Watch Glenn Patterson throw a disc, then try to explain to me how the "prototypical" body type matters. Athletic people find ways to get the most out of their bodies.

There comes a point where raw power negates technique. Just look at the progression of Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

Not to derail the thread but raw power never negates technique in BJJ. Almeida is incredibly technical and we are just a few years removed from Roger dominating the open class with fundamental techniques and a complete lack of flashy athletic movements. Sorry *end derail

 

[Moose33]

Have you devoted the same amount of time to training disc golf as you did to baseball? My contention isn't that a major league pitcher would be able to immediately smoke everybody in disc golf just on talent alone, but that with the same dedication to disc golf as was given to baseball, they would outperform the majority of disc golfers, and ultimately eclipse everyone.

Of course not, I devote a lot of time to it, probably 5-8 hours a week in just field world, putting practice and flexibility but it would not have been uncommon to spend 30-40 hours in baseball related training in an offseason for baseball.

If I didn't have to work to feed my kid I'd love to give it a shot though.

 

[garublador]

I think it's pretty obvious that if we had a larger pool of potential players that the overall level of competition would rise. However its' not obvious that the skill level of the very top level pros would be significantly different. The OP referenced two, cherry picked players (neither of whom play at a top pro level AFAIK) to "prove" that athletes in other sports would easily out perform the current top level pros, but that clearly doesn't really prove anything.

The thing with disc (and regular) golf is that you're really only playing against the course. There is no physical interaction between players. Being big and athletic doesn't help nearly as much in these types of sports as it does in team or player vs. player sports like basketball, baseball, football and tennis. For example, Shaq's free throw percentage would be considered not great for a high school player, yet he was a dominant pro player in his time. You can't get away with that in sports like disc golf. Being taller and stronger doesn't prevent the other players from playing well. It just isn't a requirement for an elite level player in disc golf like it is for other sports.

 

[TruthHurts]

Not to derail the thread but raw power never negates technique in BJJ. Almeida is incredibly technical and we are just a few years removed from Roger dominating the open class with fundamental techniques and a complete lack of flashy athletic movements. Sorry *end derail

My choice of wording was poor, what I meant is the time of technique alone bringing success has passed. By success, I don't mean in pure GI, no-gi grappling competitions, but in the application of BJJ in MMA. Technique + strength/flexibility/conditioning/ > technique alone.

 

[TruthHurts]

I think it's pretty obvious that if we had a larger pool of potential players that the overall level of competition would rise. However its' not obvious that the skill level of the very top level pros would be significantly different. The OP referenced two, cherry picked players (neither of whom play at a top pro level AFAIK) to "prove" that athletes in other sports would easily out perform the current top level pros, but that clearly doesn't really prove anything.

The thing with disc (and regular) golf is that you're really only playing against the course. There is no physical interaction between players. Being big and athletic doesn't help nearly as much in these types of sports as it does in team or player vs. player sports like basketball, baseball, football and tennis. For example, Shaq's free throw percentage would be considered not great for a high school player, yet he was a dominant pro player in his time. You can't get away with that in sports like disc golf. Being taller and stronger doesn't prevent the other players from playing well. It just isn't a requirement for an elite level player in disc golf like it is for other sports.

My cherry picked example was intended to show that with minimal effort, a guy who was a natural athlete, meaning he excelled at other sports, was able to become competitive in a very short period of time. The movements associated with disc golf throws are not exceptionally hard to master, and were somebody who was able to master much more complex, physically demanding sports, to devote time to disc golf, the time spent perfecting it would be shorter, leading to quicker success.

I'm not talking about offensive lineman, or guys who are just strong, or just fast, but guys who can master athletic movements quickly, or perform them at elite levels.

 

[TruthHurts]

There's a big difference between saying that disc golf is not going to be able to draw athletes that could compete as professionals in other sports and saying that the current professionals aren't natural athletes. You started the thread talking about a theoretical division 2 baseball player and there are a number of disc golfers who have comparable resumes to that in "traditional" athletics (Feldberg, Koling, Schweberger, Reading, Gallops).

Personally I have always had athletic activities come easily to me. I was on the mound for opening day all 4 years for the high school varsity team culminating in several div 2 offers. I was the starting 3 for the varsity baskeball team. As an adult I picked up jui jitsu and thai boxing and excelled. However, despite putting a lot of time into disc golf I have not found nearly the same level of success playing this sport and the fact of the matter is you just can't predict how an athlete's abilities are going to translate into another sport.

If Brinster "proves" your point then Michael Jordan "proves" the opposite point. No one would argue if you said he was the greatest athlete on the planet at one point and yet he strove to make it in baseball and could not and for that matter said he would like to compete in golf and cannot despite pouring hours into both.

Division 2 offers, but did you compete at, and find success competing in a division 2 school? I'm not personally attacking you, but when I referenced a division 2 college athlete, I mean a guy who competed, found success, and could make his way onto a farm team.

Michael Jordan is not a good example. Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson, John Elway. A guy with no baseball experience, late in his career trying to find success at a difficult sport, at an elite level is not the same as a him trying to throw a disc. Hitting a major league pitcher when you're not from a baseball background is not the same as throwing a disc a few hundred feet with accuracy.

 

[Jukeshoe]

There's plenty of high athletes in disc golf...

*rereads OP*

Oh, "high level..." :|


Nvrmnd. Carry on.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think a guy like Bo Jackson has the "prototype" build to throw a disc far, but I believe that if he were still in his 20s-30s, he would put the distance record well out of reach. Even at his current age, I think he could break the record. Watch Glenn Patterson throw a disc, then try to explain to me how the "prototypical" body type matters. Athletic people find ways to get the most out of their bodies.

There comes a point where raw power negates technique. Just look at the progression of Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

How many Bo Jackson's are there?

Why does Brinster out throw Glenn?

 

[sidewinder22]

The very fact that there are guys(Brinster) who can win the most prestigious tournament in the sport(USDGC), while working a full-time job most of the year, in addition to raising a family says just about all that needs to be said.

I'm not knocking Brinster, he deserves enormous amounts of respect for his accomplishments, but he pretty clearly proves my point.

Do you know how many Olympians have regular full time jobs?

 

[SonicGuy]

Not to derail the thread but raw power never negates technique in BJJ. Almeida is incredibly technical and we are just a few years removed from Roger dominating the open class with fundamental techniques and a complete lack of flashy athletic movements. Sorry *end derail

Not to derail it even further but the BJJ guys always say that bs about technique and then turn around and roid till the roosters crow. The technique speech has been handed down from the mcdojos to sell BJJ to the pimply wimps whose parents wield the credit card.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Do you know how many Olympians have regular full time jobs?

or any athletes outside of the the big three sports? Shoot, even Kurt Warner was bagging groceries in-between NFL stints.