Swingplane/follow through issues.

[Malawi]

I guess you guys already discussed this subject before but couldnt find the right thread.

Anyway my backhand has been floppy lately so i was revisiting sw22's yt channel and came across the Reciprocating Dingle Arm vid. Using gravity to swing the disc instead of throwing straight from reachback. One thing that my mind missed when trying to learn everything else.

So went out today and tried it out and couldnt make it work with a disc... It works when not having a disc in my hand, i can feel my elbow/arm kinda swings around the body doing the high five like Wysocki does.

Have had some throws in the past when i felt the same thing with a disc, was practising hyzer flips and angled the disc in a hyzer angle in the reachback with the elbow kinda wide and could really feel my elbow in the follow through and distance was effortless.

Is this a elbow issue? Do you have to focus driving the elbow forward?

Seems hard to throw having the elbow at 90 degress and just turn my torso keeping the angle, mostly 9 out of 10 throws are super inconsistent and powerless doing that. Also focus driving with the elbow doesnt seems to be productive for me.

Atm i just have my arm dingle really relaxed with disc between my legs elbow out a bit when xstepping then in the reach back i lift my arm and out kinda wide like Philo/Oakley and moving forward shifting from behind, disc comming to the pocket and release. I can throw around 400 like that but it feels like my follow through stops halfway with just my arm not the body, not like sw22 shows in the video.
Its more like out and in to the pocket and not out again.

Any tips ides how to master this swing motion? elbow problem or something else?

When throwing a forehand it actully worked and i could feel using gravity effortless even tho my wrist rolled over some throws. Really appricate all help i got from this forum from already!

 

[Malawi]

Edit* Aha shoulders and arm needs tho swing together! Thats why it works for forehand!
So it could be my shoulders going before the arm or vice verca, how will i fix this haha since i have been trying to develop arm lag for months.. I remember my first thread here when started around 1 year ago, someone wrote welcome to the deep rabbithole!Well that one i understand now

 

[RFrance]

Just from the title of your thread I would suggest this thread Straight & Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist! https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415 and this video

 

[Malawi]

Thanks!

Did found it after i posted.

Lots of technical stuff in there i dont really understand. Closest thing i found was that i dont throw out wider with my shoulders open. They are probably kinda perpendicular when releasing and rotate forward after. And in my best throws they probably sync more.

 

[Brychanus]

I suggest direct form review. It can be intimidating but it's hard to know cause/effect for a lot of what you are saying w/out video.

Re: shoulders, the throwing shoulder needs to follow the arm/disc into the backswing, then swing the arm/disc forward in the throw over the front knee. It's a source of lag+myotatic (stretching) reflex.

For Reciprocating dingle arm, IMO as SW22 suggests, you need to get used to swinging/slashing the disc around in all directions. Then, when you add more weight to the throw, the discs can slip out accidentally at first. If you add the front knee extension/hip clear (like in One Leg Drill), the fly out even faster. I think having discs fly out unexpectedly & fast as you develop is really important feedback - it teaches the body that the weight shift is giving you lots of force that your arm doesn't need to provide!

So I think to learn this system of techniques, totally forgetting about accuracy at first is important. You need to focus on the mechanisms that add force, then dial it in as you go. Your body/grip will start to adjust with reps. Then you make a new mechanical adjustment w/ trial and error, take it back to the field, rinse and repeat.

I think it's also important to decide how comfortable you are with sucking on the course while working on form, and for how long!

 

[Malawi]

I suggest direct form review. It can be intimidating but it's hard to know cause/effect for a lot of what you are saying w/out video.

Re: shoulders, the throwing shoulder needs to follow the arm/disc into the backswing, then swing the arm/disc forward in the throw over the front knee. It's a source of lag+myotatic (stretching) reflex.

For Reciprocating dingle arm, IMO as SW22 suggests, you need to get used to swinging/slashing the disc around in all directions. Then, when you add more weight to the throw, the discs can slip out accidentally at first. If you add the front knee extension/hip clear (like in One Leg Drill), the fly out even faster. I think having discs fly out unexpectedly & fast as you develop is really important feedback - it teaches the body that the weight shift is giving you lots of force that your arm doesn't need to provide!

So I think to learn this system of techniques, totally forgetting about accuracy at first is important. You need to focus on the mechanisms that add force, then dial it in as you go. Your body/grip will start to adjust with reps. Then you make a new mechanical adjustment w/ trial and error, take it back to the field, rinse and repeat.

I think it's also important to decide how comfortable you are with sucking on the course while working on form, and for how long!

Indeed will make a vid and post as soon i got the time for it.

Yes i get what you are saying i get the feeling of it when trying it at home. Now i totally understand why some throws feels so diffrent, was blind focusing mostly on lower body not seeing it in every pros form.

Do you have any tip that makes it easier to time shoulders and body rotation?

Noticed 2 things!
Oe from watching the Barry Schultz gif in the other thread. When he start rotate his upper body/shoulders he have disc out inline with his armpit or right pec and then swing back wide while i from same position swing back starting from the left pec so my arm is probably lagging to far back.

Aswell as swing the left arm in at the right time, i mostly forget to do it or misstime it. Sadly iam sick atm so cant go out and try it out.

Might have to learn to swing bh after i figure the upper body timing but great advice there and will start using it for forehands since my FH muscle memory is still fresh. Did feel really effortless to focus on the swing, same distance as before but had alot of wobble. Probably was just throwing to hard.

About sucking on the course, my friends mostly have to convince me to go out and play them, rather working on my form on a football field until im more consistent, thats how much i hate sucking hehe.

 

[Brychanus]

Do you have any tip that makes it easier to time shoulders and body rotation?

Timing matters, but I think it's best to find tricks that get your body to learn the timing automatically. It's really hard to train exact timing, but your body is constantly seeking to be in balance. That's why people don't fall over even with really suboptimal form.

I really like One Leg Drill more the deeper I go. You can get a ton of power learning to lead the arm swinging your shoulder back into the backswing, then sink your weight + extend leg against the ground to get a weight-and-hip-led throw. The shoulder will come through behind it. The rotation occurs because of your posture interacting with gravity and the plant leg, and rotation continues into follow through because of your arm's momentum pulling you around. Anyway, easier done than said - I actually think getting that drill critiqued with video on the forum is a really good idea for most players.

Noticed 2 things!
Oe from watching the Barry Schultz gif in the other thread. When he start rotate his upper body/shoulders he have disc out inline with his armpit or right pec and then swing back wide while i from same position swing back starting from the left pec so my arm is probably lagging to far back.

Sounds like a good observation. It's hard, but try to focus more on the movements than the exact postures. You can get cause/effect seriously mixed up!

Aswell as swing the left arm in at the right time, i mostly forget to do it or misstime it. Sadly iam sick atm so cant go out and try it out.

Feel better soon. I think starting with "don't spill the beverage" is good to get the elbow tucked in and feel the balance. Later you can expand/tweak the movement.

About sucking on the course, my friends mostly have to convince me to go out and play them, rather working on my form on a football field until im more consistent, thats how much i hate sucking hehe.

I feel you!

 

[timothy42b]

Atm i just have my arm dingle really relaxed with disc between my legs elbow out a bit when xstepping then in the reach back i lift my arm and out kinda wide like Philo/Oakley and moving forward shifting from behind, disc comming to the pocket and release. I can throw around 400 like that but it feels like my follow through stops halfway with just my arm not the body, not like sw22 shows in the video.

If you're throwing 400 you're way ahead of me and you don't need my input. But your description sounds a bit like you're not riding the bull all the way. That's something I do wrong and it results in a turn and burn.

 

[Malawi]

If you're throwing 400 you're way ahead of me and you don't need my input. But your description sounds a bit like you're not riding the bull all the way. That's something I do wrong and it results in a turn and burn.

Oh i need alot of input, i think like 380-420 are throws when im alot
closer to timing the upper body the right way then releasing without open my front shoulder. I really hope that is the case

Ok watched riding the bull before but couldnt understand it. Need to check it again. Its hard to understand throwing mechanics in another language and never played sports or putting attention to how bofy works before even tho its fun to learn

 

[Malawi]

Happy update:

Went out today even tho im sick, could barely sleep tonight was thinking on this subject to much hehe.

Anyway, it went really well to time upperbody and did a full swing with a complete follow through. Have been throwing like that before in my best throws aswell but now.. all throws felt effortless for same distance, looked super smooth, straight on the line and nosedown.

Did focus on a widerail Schultz style from the right pec area instead of left and really focus on waiting for the plant heel to come down.

Tried out 2 diffrent kinda of styles/throws that didnt felt the same. One focusing backswing with shouler then swinging the backside of my lead shoulder when disc comming to the chest, i could barely feel the disc release just hear the snap sound.

Other one was same widerail style but let the discs weight swing my shoulders back kinda.
Then just plant heel and swing disc from pocket with my forearm, atleast it felt like iy. Disc felt heavy aswell.

But these throws wasnt the same smooth ones compare to focus on shoulder swing. Tho both throws was with timed arm/shoulders out in out release.

Whitch one is more the right one do you think? Or are they diffrent styles?

 

[timothy42b]

Ok watched riding the bull before but couldnt understand it.

Every time I watch One Leg Drill I notice something, usually something I'm not doing. I'm getting closer but it hasn't shown up on the course yet.

So this is what I'm talking about but i might be completely wrong. Look at SW22 in the backwing. His torso leans forward (toward 6:00) slightly. As he swings around to face 9:00, that same amount of lean is facing three, and again at 12:00. What I think is one of my problems is straightening up at 9 instead of spinning to 1200 as the right leg pushes the hip up.

 

[Brychanus]

Every time I watch One Leg Drill I notice something, usually something I'm not doing. I'm getting closer but it hasn't shown up on the course yet.

Just sharing a "swing thought" on OLD that finally got through to me. I've never played hockey seriously before, but somehow thinking about a full-power slapshot plus Aimee's golf breakdown of swing hinges SW22 shared with me got through to me:
https://youtu.be/um5cS9u_Y0w?t=273

Once you get that motion into the OLD you'll get a big increase in power. I also found that it finally feels more like an "athletic" move through the whole body.