[Drivers] Sword vs. Hades

[Twmccoy]

Today in the field I put a 174g VIP Sword up against a 174 ESP proto Hades. For two discs that have fairly similar flight numbers, there were some subtle differences I observed between them.

Listed flight numbers: Hades- 12, 6, -3, 2. Sword- 12, 5, 0, 2.

Westside is famous for having outrageously inaccurate flight numbers on many of their molds. The Sword is no exception. Anyone who's ever thrown a Sword knows they have substantial high speed turn. To rate it as 0 is laughable.

I found the Sword and Hades to have very similar looking flights. They had the same amount of high speed turn and late fade. The Hades is definitely faster and has more glide than the Sword, though. Both discs turned and burned a few times. I was throwing in slightly breezy conditions. Any time the breeze as in my face I had to steeply hyzer them to keep them from flipping entirely.

The extra speed and glide of the Hades were difference makers in terms of overall performance. I was getting probably 30' more out of the Hades than the Sword. Both would fly the same looping S curve lines. The Hades just floated more and carried further. Top distance with the Hades today was probably 450'. Honestly, the more I throw the Hades, the better I get with it. That disc is "sneaky long" and will keep up with almost anything out there. My only real knock on the Hades is that it can be flaky. The understability will show at random times, and the disc will turn and burn badly. The Hades isn't a disc I'd ever choose if pinpoint accuracy was a must.

The Sword seemed a little clunky and short. I threw several big, flexing S curves with it only to find it short of the Hades every time. The Sword simply doesn't penetrate or glide as well as the Hades. The Sword also proved finicky. It won't tolerate any sort of headwind. I flipped it over entirely numerous times. The Sword seems to have a finite amount of power it can take before it bails out. The Hades seems to hyzerflip more reliably.

I'd rate the Sword at 11, 5, -3, 2. I feel like the Sword is slower and MUCH flippier than Westside's numbers indicate. The Sword falls well short of the Hades. I don't feel like the Sword is quite a max distance driver. I felt like I was overpowering it, and the distance wasn't super impressive.

The Hades flew great. Discraft's flight numbers of 12, 6, -3, 2 seem dead on. The Hades is definitely flippy and can be finicky, but I feel like it takes power better than the Sword, and responds with great glide and distance.

Both of these discs are good for intermediate arms. You don't need a ton of speed to flip either one. If you want max distance, choose the Hades. The Sword just isn't as long.

 

[PMantle]

Agree completely on the Sword. I think there is big variation in the Hades. I would suggest you get some more if possible. The two I have are barely -1 in turn. I am totally in love with both.

 

[Twmccoy]

Agree completely on the Sword. I think there is big variation in the Hades. I would suggest you get some more if possible. The two I have are barely -1 in turn. I am totally in love with both.

I've thrown 4 Hades'. The first one didn't have a ton of turn. The other 3 are -3 turn. The ones with more turn also have really floaty glide. I agree there's some mold inconsistency.

I have 1 other Hades (167-169) I haven't thrown yet. I imagine it'll be flippy, but who knows.

All I know is that the Hades blows the Sword away.

 

[Moose33]

Sword isn't a bad disc per se, but I feel like the Boatman, which has better HSS and glide is what it wants to be but doesn't quite deliver. It's probably slower but I can throw it further.

Haven't thrown a Hades yet, was going to give one a shot but they were sold out on Infinite when I placed my last order.

The Kahu XG I have to say is the most impressive understable driver I've thrown in years. Thrown flat it turns a bit and glides a bunch. Longest BH disc for me so far.

 

[Twmccoy]

Sword isn't a bad disc per se, but I feel like the Boatman, which has better HSS and glide is what it wants to be but doesn't quite deliver. It's probably slower but I can throw it further.

Haven't thrown a Hades yet, was going to give one a shot but they were sold out on Infinite when I placed my last order.

The Kahu XG I have to say is the most impressive understable driver I've thrown in years. Thrown flat it turns a bit and glides a bunch. Longest BH disc for me so far.

My 1 Kahu actually seemed somewhat overstable. Metal flake champion-like plastic. I'll have to dig it out again and give it another go round.

The most impressive understable bomber I've thrown in years is the Axiom Excite. Other than maybe the G* Corvette, it slaughters everything I put it up against for sheer distance.

I've thrown the Boatman. It seemed to have less glide than the Sword. It reminded me of a Wraith.

 

[Moose33]

My 1 Kahu actually seemed somewhat overstable. Metal flake champion-like plastic. I'll have to dig it out again and give it another go round.

The most impressive understable bomber I've thrown in years is the Axiom Excite. Other than maybe the G* Corvette, it slaughters everything I put it up against for sheer distance.

I've thrown the Boatman. It seemed to have less glide than the Sword. It reminded me of a Wraith.

Their cosmic(MF champ) plastic is Way more Os than the Atomic(swirly star) plastic. I have one like you are describing and it's a lot like a Champ Boss or Giant. I've had 4 Atomic and they fly for days.

I think a beat wraith flight was the intention with the Boatman, but the one I have is pretty long for that style of disc. Of maybe I just got a very clunky sword.

 

[Twmccoy]

Their cosmic(MF champ) plastic is Way more Os than the Atomic(swirly star) plastic. I have one like you are describing and it's a lot like a Champ Boss or Giant. I've had 4 Atomic and they fly for days.

I think a beat wraith flight was the intention with the Boatman, but the one I have is pretty long for that style of disc. Of maybe I just got a very clunky sword.

I've probably thrown 6 or 7 Swords. They're just disappointingly short. They seem similar to the Trespass, but I have better luck with Trespasses.

Swords tend to be flippy, but I've also seen a couple beefy ones. A beefy Sword is tough to deal with. They won't turn or glide, and they're short.

 

[kevdiv48]

Hades to Shryke comparison? I've read you've thrown Shrykes a decent amount.

 

[twistedraven]

At least for me, I've thrown Hades that wind up more stable and less stable than Shrykes. Shyrkes seem to be more consistent. Shrykes vary from like -1.5/2 to -2/2 while Hades can vary from like -1/2 to -4/2.

 

[aphilso1]

I always find these comparisons interesting, TWM. Keep 'em coming. That said, I don't know how your arm hasn't fallen off yet. It seems like you are constantly throwing distance drivers for max distance tests, which is something I can't do for more than a handful of consecutive reps. Glad someone is out there that can perform the scientific experiments for the rest of us!

 

[PMantle]

I always find these comparisons interesting, TWM. Keep 'em coming. That said, I don't know how your arm hasn't fallen off yet. It seems like you are constantly throwing distance drivers for max distance tests, which is something I can't do for more than a handful of consecutive reps. Glad someone is out there that can perform the scientific experiments for the rest of us!

More torso/legs-less arm. After I almost had to have rotator cuff surgery, I revamped my throw, and even though I am a bit older than I was when injured, my arm/shoulder never hurts anymore, and I am throwing farther as a 53 year old than I did as a 48 year old.

 

[Twmccoy]

Hades to Shryke comparison? I've read you've thrown Shrykes a decent amount.

Next time I throw a star Shryke in the field I'll bring out a Hades as well. What I can tell you now is that the Hades has more high speed turn than the Shryke. Other than that they're fairly similar.

I do agree with the comment that Shrykes tend to be more consistent in terms of high speed turn. Usually -2. Hades' can be anywhere from -1 to -4, as mentioned. I generally find Hades' flippier than Shrykes.

 

[Twmccoy]

I always find these comparisons interesting, TWM. Keep 'em coming. That said, I don't know how your arm hasn't fallen off yet. It seems like you are constantly throwing distance drivers for max distance tests, which is something I can't do for more than a handful of consecutive reps. Glad someone is out there that can perform the scientific experiments for the rest of us!

I like one good throwing session a week. I have all sorts of various discs, so it's fun to compare them.

Next one will probably be star Tern vs. star Shryke vs. ESP Hades. I might even mix a Crank SS in there.

I've had to limit throwing a bit lately. It's too damn cold here to go throw as much as I'm used to. It hurts the body. The Hades reminds me of a Crank SS, and I'd like to see how they compare head to head.

 

[aphilso1]

More torso/legs-less arm. After I almost had to have rotator cuff surgery, I revamped my throw, and even though I am a bit older than I was when injured, my arm/shoulder never hurts anymore, and I am throwing farther as a 53 year old than I did as a 48 year old.

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. After a round where I'm trying to throw hard almost the whole time (which pretty much only happens on long, open ball golf courses), I find my right hip, right knee, and tendons in my wrist feeling the most fatigue. Sometimes also the three smallest toes on my right foot. I'm sure that means I'm doing something else wrong, but my problem is definitely not strong arming.

It's just a common saying, ya know? Throw until your arm falls off. You've never heard anyone say that?

 

[Moose33]

I grew on the sore legs comment. Too many hard backhands and my knees and right hip are knackered.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

Hades to Shryke comparison? I've read you've thrown Shrykes a decent amount.

I'd say they're probably pretty similar, though a Hades is more like a Tern than a Shryke IMO. Shryke will probably go further but the Hades will be more consistent distance wise. All the recent Shrykes I've recently seen/thrown have been massively US but so have most of the Hades (though the flat ones do have good stability and distance). Domey Star is the best Shryke, flat Champ is the best Tern, and flat ESP is the best Hades from my experience.

 

[Twmccoy]

I grew on the sore legs comment. Too many hard backhands and my knees and right hip are knackered.

I feel the same, and it's worse if I throw in the cold. My hip and right knee get achy if I throw a lot in the cold. I have far less trouble in warmer weather.

I'm old....:\

I was smashing yesterday. I threw great. My hip and knee are aching today. I probably won't try to throw again until next week.

I know I had a couple near 500' throws with a Katana and Excite. That in addition to all the Sword and Hades throws.

 

[Twmccoy]

I'd say they're probably pretty similar, though a Hades is more like a Tern than a Shryke IMO. Shryke will probably go further but the Hades will be more consistent distance wise. All the recent Shrykes I've recently seen/thrown have been massively US but so have most of the Hades (though the flat ones do have good stability and distance). Domey Star is the best Shryke, flat Champ is the best Tern, and flat ESP is the best Hades from my experience.

Yeah, next week I'll do Shryke vs. Tern vs. Hades vs. Crank SS.

I have 5 Hades', and all of them have at least some dome. No flat ones. I've never liked flat Terns or Shrykes.

 

[Moose33]

I feel the same, and it's worse if I throw in the cold. My hip and right knee get achy if I throw a lot in the cold. I have far less trouble in warmer weather.

I'm old....:\

I was smashing yesterday. I threw great. My hip and knee are aching today. I probably won't try to throw again until next week.

I know I had a couple near 500' throws with a Katana and Excite. That in addition to all the Sword and Hades throws.

I'm not terribly old, just in my 30s but with as many injuries as I've had it's worse than it should be.

For me backhand is far worse than forehand. I can throw 25 max distance BH throws and feel dead. Forehand I'm probably good to closer to 40. You are dead right that cold makes it worse.

 

[Twmccoy]

I'm not terribly old, just in my 30s but with as many injuries as I've had it's worse than it should be.

For me backhand is far worse than forehand. I can throw 25 max distance BH throws and feel dead. Forehand I'm probably good to closer to 40. You are dead right that cold makes it worse.

I only throw forehands on the course, and even then not very often. Backhand is my main throw. I only throw short forehands where I need a hooking shot around an obstacle, or to avoid trouble on the left. I usually throw the Discraft Flick for those.

On a good day I can rip off over 100 hard backhand drives without issue. Yesterday I threw in like 38 degree weather, and I'm feeling it today.

Yesterday I did over 100. Interestingly, my 2 longest throws of the day were also the last 2. It takes me a while to get going backhand. My first 20 throws I might not clear 360'. Then, it's like a switch goes on and all of a sudden I'm at 425'. Later, I'll start clearing 450'.

I can see now why pros do lots of warmup/practice drives before they play on the course. Lately I've been going out and playing without a warmup. It's affecting my overall distance on the course. The cold weather (as mentioned) doesn't help at all either.

I'm 39, FWIW.....