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Tech disc test driven development

Yeah exactly what should help here esp. when throwing out of a version of a one-legged throw like he is here. It would be a way also of testing exactly what I keep suspecting is going to be affecting the grip data as the OLD improves, for example.

"Kickstand" (I like that): What I used to misunderstand and do wrong in the move is that you need to build up some foot pressure along the rear foot instep. Failing to do that caused all kinds of bad things and I needed to go back and rework it from scratch. If I catch your meaning Sidewinder's OLD works as a "kickstand" move allowing pressure back into the rear foot in the backswing before shifting forward from that foot's instep in the tilted axis on the front leg. I personally didn't figure out the balance "trick" until doing a lot of other moves, but would generally point people to try it out and attempt to learn it in OLD first.
Yep, that is SW's terminology not mine haha.

People sometimes seem to interpret it as...a flamingo drill where you very literally throw from one leg (which, you can in fact do with some power but I don't think most people have the balance lol).

I am with you on getting this part dialed before putting much effort into trying tons of different ways to control nose angle.
Yep, that is SW's terminology not mine haha.

People sometimes seem to interpret it as...a flamingo drill where you very literally throw from one leg (which, you can in fact do with some power but I don't think most people have the balance lol).

I am with you on getting this part dialed before putting much effort into trying tons of different ways to control nose angle.
Yeah I was doing something more like a pirouetting flamingo. Which is not even as cool as that sounds lmao

Slight hopping OLD was a huge insight for me. Then I had to spend a ton of time on balance (and still am).
Does the one-leg drill not help here? I feel like people sleep on that drill sooooo badly, or they misunderstand and think it is too rigid.

Doing a more dynamic 'kickstand' shift off of the rear leg, imo, is perfectly fine for accomplishing what the drill is trying to make you feel.

Even doing back/forth motions but ENFORCING that you throw off of the lead leg is an amazing thing to feel.
All my tech disc tests are mostly throws with a 1 leg standstills averaging >=20 deg hyzer but probably missing a lot of stuff about the drill.
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If I understand what you mean by pour the tea in its dynamic context, this is part of the late arm-disc interaction that occurs when also leveraging out a hammer and probably part of why that grip or those close to it works for someone like me.

F1P2 - interesting how some of the spin data appear to drop in some cases.

I keep thinking about how to communicate what I think will be some meeting point between "forward engineering" and "reverse engineering" the grip in the context of the overall move. This is not really a criticism because you could do what you're doing with the same method, code all those data, then formally test them if you address the following.

I still hypothesize that you will get interactions between most of these readings and your balance and weight shift should you choose to address it. I will try to be clear about the general pattern in your overall throw. Your one leg move still has a mostly vertical axis of rotation, but not all of the lateral balance that puts you into a tilted axis that we see in most top moves. So you have more of a spin move off the rear foot and then again on the plant foot when your weight lands than is ideal, at least to a degree. I used to do that too, and my grip dynamics changed necessarily when the shift dynamics changed. This is part of that shoulder abduction/flexion comment I made elsewhere & in comparison to Simon when talking about how the move works overall. It is also related to why I nudged you toward Double Dragon and the Windmill X-step recently - the balance coming off the rear foot gives you more access to what I'm talking about when you reachback and then land on the plant foot. The windmill is a way of tricking a person into moving through the tilted axis from foot to foot without them having to think about it (usually). If the primary force of the move ends up mostly horizontal, it still ideally encodes more of the postural learning from the windmill. The way your arm swings to be on plane will likely adjust in that case (which is why you had nose down issues in the first try), which also means it will need to adjust to maintain a grip, pivot, and whip effect heading into the release even if your move is quite horizontal. E.g., the way Simon moves to throw "upward nose down" is posturally different and includes the tilted balance, which encodes a different flow of sequence, posture, etc.

For me the arm "unit" part clicked quickly. But it took a long time working on the shift without hammers to figure out how to get it to apply to the disc, including lots of input on my Dingle arm drills from Sidewinder. If I had used my old grips and grip dynamics after my shift changed, it did not work as well. Once I changed it and as my body adapts to the new move, I am throwing farther with less effort again, with the requisite adjustments in grips that only tend to sink in over time.

I can clarify or be more specific if anything is helpful.
Is tilted axis mostly hyzer lean being rotated around? If so then that's confusing since I'm leaning to get 20 deg hyzer in most throws so how am I vertical axis.
Is tilted axis mostly hyzer lean being rotated around? If so then that's confusing since I'm leaning to get 20 deg hyzer in most throws so how am I vertical axis.
People often find it easier to do on hyzer at first, but it's the tilted part of the move that is most "lateral" (North-south if top of tee is North) regardless of the throwing angle, not the East-West tilt of the posture (which is about the balance of head over the feet***, which can adjust but is not necessarily just the swing plane). Tilted axis is baked into most of Sidewinder's drills, but it's always the same balance problem. I'll try to string together a few that I recall helped me the most with this. I think I might put together a thread because this is one of the most confusing things about the motion that I don't think needs to be, but it can be hard to do.

In the One leg drill, view the section starting around 5:35 for the next 3 minutes or so. He shows first how the move should come through the insteps, then how the backswing/reachback causes the rotational part of the move. This is basically a solution to the whole confusion between "lateral" or "rotational" movement in a nutshell.

But to do it properly, you need to be in tilted balance moving left to right. I found that incredibly hard to learn in the One leg drill at first because the range of motion is small, and I couldn't feel the difference at first. In that case, bigger exaggerations can help. In that case, it is what is emphasized in most of the Turbo Encabulator moves. All of these moves function like skaters or a skiier slaloming exaggerating the lateral part:

The fundamental balance is also discussed here, which combines the North-South part I am talking about with the East-West part. I don't think I understood this completely until after working on the North-South part for a while in the "Dingle arm" moves.

And this is still the best vid and drill I'm aware of that teaches the balance you want to be in across those drills, including one leg:

Kick the can or ball lets you practice it bigger and more dynamically including with X-step:

Tilted axis is about the balance from head to foot. You can't see it on camera unless you already know what to look for and have felt it. Blue arrows are where his balance is. Notice that it goes through the same progression as the Pratt drill above.


***Comment here with a short discussion of East-West tilted axis balance. I'll pull these together in a thread when I get time.

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That green to red line changes depending on desired shot shape/hyzer angle. I'll show you next time.
You were right BTW depending on if you meant red line for more anhyzer but there's two big ways it can be more anhyzer that are very different, 1 from adjusting throw plane to align with the rim (this is what I was referring to in my previous comment about being easily 'influenced' to throw more anhyzer), or 2, ignoring that and throwing in a very weird way.

I re-retested (lol) to force myself to throw in the weird way to show the real stats if I didn't change anything (as much as I could).


I'm not setup to do screenshots, but it seems like Mason Ford does something close to F1P3. His grip seems unique when viewed on Jomez this season. And his disc flights all seem very neutral.
Here's a few of Mason .

This one looks fairly center to me around P0 or P-1
This one looks like it could be P-1 or P-2. Sometimes my initial P0 moves a bit closer to -1 after I close and tighten the grip and fingers.
Same throw but looks more centered in palm like P0 to me now:
I feel like you need some of that touch sensitive paint to apply to a disc to chuck at a net and take a pic real quick as a reference to your tech disc. Call it the grip disc or something cool.
Or some of this stuff. McMaster-Carr

Some these films can be applied with spray adhesive and with a heat gun you could apply it to the flight plate and inside rim, I can't find it while quickly scrolling but I know there's also heat adhesive types. Would probably work best on a white disc since they're all grey scale.
Yeah from what I saw in the video the wrist curl made a significant difference. More spin even at less speed, so a higher advanced ratio.
Yeah, and previously it seemed like my spin kinda stopped increasing much beyond 60 so my adv would continually get lower as I got my speed higher.

Gonna test the "late wrist curl only" style next and see how it is. Even if it's great idk if I'll adopt it because I have other higher priority form changes to work on. However, I definitely want to start taking more advantage of the wrist whenever I get a chance.

Knowing me I'll probably not be able to resist messing with it here or there while working on other stuff, lol.

I think this is partly why pros have a high adv ratio on slower throws because it's even easier to add / time wrist pop on slower throws so they can more easily keep the spin high.
More wrist curl definitely helps me keep my spin up.

I've got some lingering foot injuries, so I've been prioritizing keeping my BH spin advantage ratio at least at 50%. Getting more distance via more spin does seem to be easier on my body.

I personally do a bit better not holding the wrist curled the whole time (i.e. something closer to a late-wrist-curl).
Testing Jake Hebenheimer style "precoiling". Didn't reduce power but more harder to run up with more pace with it, especially on the left step.


Just did a second quick test with TD in my dungeon, still a little sick and didn't video, but I am able to at least semi-consistently get nose down hyzers with pronation all the way to finish. I'm starting super supinated like Eliezra and pronating thru(at least that is the feel). So I'm thinking it to be like I had originally thought and that is not the action of rolling the arm one way or the other or last point of contact/precession that affects the nose angle, but has more to due with the position/orientation at the moment of release. I can also do the opposite starting pronated and supinating and end up with nose up.

Just tossing the disc straight up in the air and rolling the arm either way has about zero consistency of nose angle and didn't matter if the thumb was on the disc or not.

I do find it very challenging to maintain focus on changing a single variable while throwing. I'm sure my tiny air mattress target/net doesn't help either.

Pronated finish:
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