The 2014 Memorial Championship

[Halcón]

I was answering a different question, Menace.

But, that's ok. I hear ya.

 

[Menacewarf]

Actually I think McBeth maxes out around 350 on the FH. He's not in Big Jerm or Rickies territory FH wise. IDK, maybe he will stop by this thread and let us know. :thmbup:

I distinctly remember Paul parking 500 ft downhill hyzers at the Charlotte worlds. How much the downhill comes in I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure he's got a 400 ft FH.

Yeah Ricky and Big Jerm I remember last year having a pretty big placement advantage where guys had to throw annhyzers or play the wider shot to ensure not skipping into the water.

How'd that work for em this year?

GCRussle, Are other guys that didn't make the filmed rounds throwing thos water gaps with FH like Barsby, Avery, or Uli? Cause all I know is that other than scottie too hottie all the filmed rounds were BH fests. (Again aside from hole 1 Vista)

I was answering a different question, Menace.

But, that's ok. I hear ya.

 

[BirdieMachine]

I distinctly remember Paul parking 500 ft downhill hyzers at the Charlotte worlds. How much the downhill comes in I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure he's got a 400 ft FH.

500 downhill can easily play 300, depends on the elevation change. Heck I can throw 750 downhill at Hyland #18 and I barely throw 350.

I'm willing to bet he doesn't throw FH on flat ground more then 350 with any accuracy at least, not counting huge skips. Jerm and Rickie have much more power on the FH.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Players like those on video have the power to throw high hyzers and beyond many holes using mid-range discs that don't skip or hyzers that come in at a high enough or sharp enough angle to minimize skip. Mere human throwers who have to use sharper edge discs to get the distance and have to throw more line drive hyzers have a higher risk with OB to the left. Ideally, forehand spin would help us if we have that shot. Either that or become a bomber like the big dogs.

 

[cjman]

Removed bc I'm confused.

 

[Menacewarf]

^ lol. Sure remove the post where you agree with me

500 downhill can easily play 300, depends on the elevation change. Heck I can throw 750 downhill at Hyland #18 and I barely throw 350.

I'm willing to bet he doesn't throw FH on flat ground more then 350 with any accuracy at least, not counting huge skips. Jerm and Rickie have much more power on the FH.

The hole was not a downhill bomb. I'm doing nothing stuck somewhere now so I'll look through the vids and find it. I could be wrong but I think I'd bet a disc he can FH 400 on flat. I just think BH is higher percentage for him (more overall distance = greater accuracy, more muscle memory from higher reps over the years)

 

[BirdieMachine]

^ lol. Sure remove the post where you agree with me



The hole was not a downhill bomb. I'm doing nothing stuck somewhere now so I'll look through the vids and find it. I could be wrong but I think I'd bet a disc he can FH 400 on flat. I just think BH is higher percentage for him (more overall distance = greater accuracy, more muscle memory from higher reps over the years)

OK what disc do you want to offer up? Flat ground, no wind and mowed lush grass, none of that desert hard pan skip.You got 400 and over. I got 399 and under. RHFH with his former sidearm disc (Star Max).

 

[elnino]

JohnE def lost this on that hyzer hole 6 only 233ft went down the hill saw him throw and roll! i figured Mccray had a grenade or some other trick shot. he foured it twice. i'm sure mcbeast got birdies everytime.

JohnE throw the grenade i promise you a free wizard you will win it next year if you grenade it.

 

[Halcón]

I also recall Paul bombing a FH drive....somewhere.

He played baseball. Why wouldn't he have a good FH?

 

[BirdieMachine]

I also recall Paul bombing a FH drive....somewhere.

He played baseball. Why wouldn't he have a good FH?

He has a great FH, 400 feet isn't needed to have a great FH though. I'm sort of unsure about my potential bet though, I just haven't seen him FH that far before on video unless it was downhill. That first hole at Vista was 267 and he threw a Destroyer btw.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

400' FH isn't that far at his level of play. He can throw it without a doubt.

Now controllable 450-500 like Ricky/Jerm is a different story.

 

[Menacewarf]

OK what disc do you want to offer up? Flat ground, no wind and mowed lush grass, none of that desert hard pan skip.You got 400 and over. I got 399 and under. RHFH with his former sidearm disc (Star Max).

Lol. I'm pretty tempted. Let's say a used disc instead to keep it friendly no? I got a champ beast...and a bunch of stuff I can't remember that I don't throw that I would put up. Of course this would involve Paul indulging us though so...we can talk all we want I guess but that doesn't mean he even checks on here anymore or never mind that he would settle a bet for some interstrangers

 

[BirdieMachine]

Lol. I'm pretty tempted. Let's say a used disc instead to keep it friendly no? I got a champ beast...and a bunch of stuff I can't remember that I don't throw that I would put up. Of course this would involve Paul indulging us though so...we can talk all we want I guess doesn't mean he even checks on here anymore though

I'm game but I don't want a Champ Beast, I already got a couple I need to dump. You got any Firebirds/Destroyers/Teebirds (Star or Champ)? I got a bunch of used discs, what sort do you like?

 

[BennettUA]

You're apparently a lefty without a decent forehand? As a righty give me holes with water on the right, not the left like most of Vista and Fountain, that's for sure. I have no forehand so I throw backhand rollers there everywhere I can when it's advantageous to bend to the right.

I have a decent forehand, but nowhere near 400'. You say you don't have a forehand at all; should I have one and not you? A lot of people think that way, not saying you do, just that I hear that all the time. "Get a forehand!" but they themselves have no forehand...

I disagree Bennett. These holes are great for lefties for the reason you stated. You want your disc finishing uphill. Watch the vids of hyzers finishing near the pin, then sliding 40 feet out because they're right to left sloping as you mentioned. That's why they throw fh like cg mentioned. Sure there are a few holes that have a tough lefty mando, but a majority would be better approached with a lefty hyzer.

Maybe some at Vista, but that's much more flat than you're talking. Hard to say though, because the vids don't show anyone taking the lefty line that you say.

And the problem with FH is their just ain't many out their that can throw 400 ft + hyzers FH over open water (meaning often high and tricky winds). Even then, we all know McBeth has that shot but why don't we see him using it? Well I'm guessing he's tried it and it's not as high percentage.

Or anyone else in the videos.

Fountain Hills especially really likes the RHFH shot. The front 9 has a lot of water danger all to the left. Fading off to the right keeps you safe and in the event of a shank is much less punishing.

Fountain Hills
1 -- 390 -- over water left the whole way, pin is on water's edge. A RHH that is short can land inbounds, a LHH short is certainly in the drink to drop zone. Land fades down left to the water(as do a lot of holes here, so any hard LHH is going to bite and cut toward the drink, not skip up to the right like you seem to imagine)
2 -- 703 -- par 4, water to left all day, tee favors LHH but second shot is most important. Green fades left toward water.
3 -- 294 -- straight shot
4 -- 463 -- OB right entire way, fairway and green fade to the OB
5 -- 372 -- straight shot with flat green. Hyzer line blocked both ways by trees near tee
6 -- 233 -- uphill shot for both hyzers with green fading away hard behind basket
7 -- 210 -- water left whole way, 2 giant trees on left, basket is on water's edge
8 -- 570 -- par 4, water left whole way, early clump of trees prevent LHH line off tee, basket on peninsula
9 -- 406 -- water left, early mando to the right prevents LHH
10 -- 381 -- trees all along left side of fairway prevent LHH. Hole ends left.
11 -- 390 -- open for both, green rolls to the left
12 -- 290 -- open for both. Massive tree to the left may hinder LHH, but hard to say since it's hard to see in videos and no one takes that route
13 -- 255 - two big trees in front of tee prevent LHH
14 -- 375 -- water left but does not come in to play for either hyzer
15 -- 426 -- open both ways
16 -- 371 -- mando to right oin fron of tee prevents LHH
17 -- 468 -- looks open for both hyzers, but someone could tell me if the giant tree on the left prevents a hard LHH
18 -- 400 -- water left all day, green rolls toward water left

Vista -
1 -- 267' -- a very short FH
2 -- 369 -- trees on left prevent lefty hyzer
3 -- 375 -- looks wide open for both with a flat green
4 -- 381 -- hard to see, camera follow all the RHHs, but it does look like more trees to the left as you get closer to the hole.
5 -- 340 -- wide open, flat green
6 -- 793 -- definitely more open to the left, though it is a par 4, and the 2nd shot is more important than the drive
7 -- 618 -- back-to-back par 4s, this looks mostly straight, finishes left
8 -- 360 -- over water to the left; last tree close to shore's edge and basket likely kicks back a lot of great LHHs
9 -- 509 -- over water to the left the whole way
10 -- 663 -- par 4, more open left but again, second shot is more important than the drive
11 -- 669 -- par 4, wide open both left and right
12 -- 363 -- over water to the left
13 -- 385 -- over water to the right, lefty hyzer line blocked by trees
14 -- 624 -- par 4, mando to left at 400'; hard to know what most people do here as the pros tee from off the pad, where if they teed on the pad it looks like a small tree would prevent the RHH line they all took. Regardless, flat green, and 2nd shot is most important.
15 -- 741 -- par 4, mando to right at ~440', LHH line is clearer off the tee, but again, 2nd shot much more important than tee shot. Finishes to the left, but should be a short LHFH if you can drive as far as the pros shown, regardless of the late mando.
16 -- 372 -- double mando to the center, looks fair for both
17 -- 264 -- shortest hole on the course, ace run looks easier for RHH as the large guardian tree is left of the basket
18 -- 375 -- over water left entire way, giant tree on edge of water looks to knock OB many good LHHs, does not come into play at all for RHHs. (many small trees on water's edge could knock OB a good LHH, but the large tree looks to cut out the line by a wide margin)


I have NOT played these courses, so any true, honest, unbiased insight would be appreciated.

BUT, judging from all the videos we've seen of these courses, I'm missing how these are LHH friendly. If the LHH were as advantageous as you say, we would see more of the pros throwing RHFH. Right? Right?

I'm not complaining; it's the way of the world, there are much more righties out there than lefties, and most courses favor RHH over LHH. To deny it is laughable, to complain about it, futile.

 

[Menacewarf]

I'm game but I don't want a Champ Beast, I already got a couple I need to dump. You got any Firebirds/Destroyers/Teebirds (Star or Champ)? I got a bunch of used discs, what sort do you like?

he only wants the good stuff eh? I'll be home later and can look through see if I got anything ya want.

 

[BirdieMachine]

he only wants the good stuff eh? I'll be home later and can look through see if I got anything ya want.

OK. Take a look and let me know what you want, then if we can agree we just need McBeast to come indulge us.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm a RHBH and RHFH thrower and play both courses fairly regularly. I probably only use the sidearm about 10% of the time while playing those tracks. The distance is a major reason. The other reason being that if you go out over the ob and come up short you're pretty much reteeing for 3

 

[BennettUA]

I have NOT played these courses, so any true, honest, unbiased insight would be appreciated.

I'm a RHBH and RHFH thrower and play both courses fairly regularly. I probably only use the sidearm about 10% of the time while playing those tracks. The distance is a major reason. The other reason being that if you go out over the ob and come up short you're pretty much reteeing for 3

Thank you, Hammer. I know you've played both and hoped you'd chime in.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I don't hear many here who roll, especially at Vista. Must be an older guy thing.

 

[The Hammer]

I roll vista #6, sometimes 10, 14, and 15. Not many good places for rollers at FH.