The downwind putt

[PMantle1]

I am lost here. Disc drops so much I have to release like I'm putting over a house. So lost I don't even know where to start. Help?

 

[luma1]

Not much wrong with it. Just try to adjust your disc angle a little. I would assume you have that glidey putt with the disc angle more than 10-15° nose up. It works fine under branches, for long putts without too much effort, and when it's not windy. But when you putt it downwind, you give the wind the complete top side of the disc to push it down. Just like a hyzer (RHBH) with wind from the left pushes it right and will not let the disc fade to the left as much, when you putt downwind it will puch it down to the ground.

I actually putted nose down for a few weeks before adjusting it because I just couldn't get it far enough, but with nose down, downwind my disc would always get pushed up and pushed down when putting into a headwind...

 

[PMantle1]

So, I'm compounding the issue? I have not tried nose down. Not sure I'm capable. Will try.

 

[Widdershins]

Wind putts are very difficult. As far as I can figure out all you need to do is throw them perfectly (PERFECTLY) then hope you don't get unlucky.

Winds are not consistent. Some days they change speed and direction, often in mid-throw. Strong winds are scary so I tend to be more conservative. Some players putt hard in strong winds. This minimizes how much the wind affects the disc between your lie and the basket but if you miss it may sail or even roll far away. Unless I am close to the basket and very confident I can hit solid center chains I usually putt softer in strong winds.

In strong winds the initial flutter of a throw, that little wobble right off your fingertips, gets exaggerated. So releasing cleanly is important. When you do this you can get away putting softer and still cutting the wind. Any time I am not sure what the winds are doing ( well, I know they are swirling but not sure what they will be doing at the instant of release and during the flight) I try to throw dead nuts flat and smooth.

With a tailwind I loft higher and putt nose up. How much higher I aim is just a judgement call. Tailwind putts are less difficult than headwinds or right to left crossing winds (for a right handed player). At least tailwinds tend to slam a disc straight down, with less chance of it going long or rolling.

The only way to learn strong winds is to throw in them. You can't go out on a calm day and just imagine there are strong winds. So while many players avoid windy days it is the best time to go out. Finding open fields where the winds are the strongest and making up safari holes is better than playing holes protected by the woods. Making up upshot games and putting games at baskets open to the wind is good too.

 

[PMantle1]

There must be something about my release that's different Mark. I say this because I am WAY better into the wind than I am down. Into, I just aim lower and firm it. Only when I get lazy and soft do I mess up into. Down? Lost, just lost.

The only thing that has worked somewhat is: turning sideways and tossing it like an approach with lots of spin. Seems like a crutch though. Would like to learn to stay in a putting stance and get it right.

 

[JR]

Spin putts err spin the disc more so the disc cuts through the wind better so laser line putts are nice for the winds especially headwinds. non glidey fading putters make rear wind putting unnecessarily difficult so the remedy is to try something that really floats and fades little. The usual suspects are APX, Rattler, 170 and lower Ions and Anodes off the top of my head. Even Aviar P&A and relatives should work ok when you go low enough in weight. Mind you dropping extremely low in putter weight will mess up the gyroscopics and the disc will fade earlier losing the benefits. Happy medium of staying in the air longer=higher and not veering off course is what you need. And this observation was done with an extreme case a Wizard that weighs measly 105 grams and that is not a typo. It fades earlier than 150, 166 and 172-175 Wizards i have.

 

[Agricolae]

I was looking at that same situation today on the course. Stiff tailwind and a 25' putt. It occurred to me that the speed of my normal putt was likely about equal to the speed of the wind, meaning that my putter would not fly ... it would be just dead weight. So, I tried to putt with the same force it would take to toss a shapeless non-aerodynamic mass into the basket. Hit center chains! A single success, but this way of gauging force per distance was new to me.

I've been using Mark's recommendation of dead flat for putts into headwinds with reasonable success. I'll go very slightly nose down, aim a little higher, if a fly-by would be too risky.

It also occurred to me today that in a really stiff tailwind, the wind may in fact be faster than my putter on its way to the basket. In that case, in terms of air speed and direction, the thing would actually be "flying" backwards (toward me, not the basket).

I'm still trying to get comfortable with wind putting. I like Mark's dead-flat and JR's spin approaches. Still, when I get spooked, I'll try to show just a bit of the top to the wind so if I mis-calculate the disc will drop instead of flying off into the adjacent fairway!

 

[JR]

I''m putting flat in all conditions if there are no obstacles because here by the sea we get so much wind so often that it is best to be prepared for wind direction and speed changes mid flight and why use two styles when you can become better in one that you can use across all conditions? Flat, laser, spin putts whatever you call them spin the disc more than lost putts. At longer ranges i do pitch up the arm a little but not as much as pure loft/pitch whatever you want to call it putters. So it still is a laser minus the initial slight lift flat shot at long ranges. In non stormy conditions i might make long runs hyzered, annied, flat or s-curving but non flat ones are exceptions based on wind direction and speed plus OB/danger like drops behind the basket.

 

[Widdershins]

There must be something about my release that's different Mark. I say this because I am WAY better into the wind than I am down. Into, I just aim lower and firm it. Only when I get lazy and soft do I mess up into. Down? Lost, just lost.

The only thing that has worked somewhat is: turning sideways and tossing it like an approach with lots of spin. Seems like a crutch though. Would like to learn to stay in a putting stance and get it right.

This makes no sense to me. If you can aim lower into a headwind then you should be able to aim higher with a tailwind. If you can putt uphill with no wind by aiming higher then you can putt higher with a tailwind on flat ground. Maybe some evil Putting Genie put a spell on you? Anyone know any good counter-spells?

 

[PMantle1]

There must be something about my release that's different Mark. I say this because I am WAY better into the wind than I am down. Into, I just aim lower and firm it. Only when I get lazy and soft do I mess up into. Down? Lost, just lost.

The only thing that has worked somewhat is: turning sideways and tossing it like an approach with lots of spin. Seems like a crutch though. Would like to learn to stay in a putting stance and get it right.

This makes no sense to me. If you can aim lower into a headwind then you should be able to aim higher with a tailwind. If you can putt uphill with no wind by aiming higher then you can putt higher with a tailwind on flat ground. Maybe some evil Putting Genie put a spell on you? Anyone know any good counter-spells?

Well, we obviously have different air here. Everyone's downwind putts get knocked down.

 

[andrewv]

Mark is acknowledging that downwind/tailwind putts get knocked down, that's why he's saying to aim higher. I'd add to give it more mustard- throw the thing with confidence which may seem counter-intuitive because you're worried if you miss it will blow way past the basket. Don't miss.

Edit: Note that Mark doesn't buy into the throw it harder theory.

 

[Widdershins]

There must be something about my release that's different Mark. I say this because I am WAY better into the wind than I am down. Into, I just aim lower and firm it. Only when I get lazy and soft do I mess up into. Down? Lost, just lost.

The only thing that has worked somewhat is: turning sideways and tossing it like an approach with lots of spin. Seems like a crutch though. Would like to learn to stay in a putting stance and get it right.

This makes no sense to me. If you can aim lower into a headwind then you should be able to aim higher with a tailwind. If you can putt uphill with no wind by aiming higher then you can putt higher with a tailwind on flat ground. Maybe some evil Putting Genie put a spell on you? Anyone know any good counter-spells?

Well, we obviously have different air here. Everyone's downwind putts get knocked down.

Right. And everyone gets wet when it rains.

 

[Widdershins]

Mark is acknowledging that downwind/tailwind putts get knocked down, that's why he's saying to aim higher. I'd add to give it more mustard- throw the thing with confidence which may seem counter-intuitive because you're worried if you miss it will blow way past the basket. Don't miss.

Edit: Note that Mark doesn't buy into the throw it harder theory.

It's not that I don't understand the value of laser putting, it is just not my 1st choice. One the last hole with a "must make" putt to tie I will putt hard. On the last hole with a putt to win by one I won't putt hard and risk a tough come back if I miss. Far better to accept a tie and let it go to sudden death in a playoff.

There are a few, very fortunate players who are naturally great putters. Since it is their strength they can get away with very risky choices on putts. I will never be invited to that exclusive country club. Heck, that club wouldn't let me serve as a volunteer shoe shine boy. That's OK. We all have strengths and weaknesses and we should all try to understand how to play to them.

I am usually good under pressure and tend to get better as the pressure mounts. So I am happy to push a situation into sudden death rather than risk it all on a low percentage putt.

In life you gotta pick your spots.

 

[PMantle1]

I'd add to give it more mustard-.

This is what I shall do. Unfortunately, putting with mustard seems to take longer than throwing a driver far. Well, and I have T-rex arms.

 

[Terrence]

A 150-class (or even 165ish) putter works well if the wind is directly at your back. Add a little anhyzer angle and you'll get good glide without having to throw beyond a comfortable power level. I deal with windy conditions nearly every round since Ludington sits on Lake Michigan's west coast.

 

[JHern]

I'd add to give it more mustard-.

This is what I shall do. Unfortunately, putting with mustard seems to take longer than throwing a driver far. Well, and I have T-rex arms.

I agree, you have to get the disc moving through air for it to generate lift and glide, so you have to throw harder downwind...throwing at wind speed is like not throwing at all, it just drops dead. You have to throw above the wind speed, just give it a bit more snap and slam center chains. Also, putting with a lot of nose up/down in wind can tend to make the disc dance in the chains, and blow out (I had a 4-putt like this during a windy tourney, I was putting nose down, each one hit dead center of mass, danced around, and then blew out...going flat instead fixed this issue). Another alternative: you can also turn the putter upside down and practice putting like that...an inverted disc has less lift anyways, so the wind will have less effect (I've known several 1010+ rated players who always putt like this inside 10' regardless of conditions).

 

[discraft]

I'd add to give it more mustard-.

This is what I shall do. Unfortunately, putting with mustard seems to take longer than throwing a driver far. Well, and I have T-rex arms.

I agree, you have to get the disc moving through air for it to generate lift and glide, so you have to throw harder downwind...throwing at wind speed is like not throwing at all, it just drops dead. You have to throw above the wind speed, just give it a bit more snap and slam center chains. Also, putting with a lot of nose up/down in wind can tend to make the disc dance in the chains, and blow out (I had a 4-putt like this during a windy tourney, I was putting nose down, each one hit dead center of mass, danced around, and then blew out...going flat instead fixed this issue). Another alternative: you can also turn the putter upside down and practice putting like that...an inverted disc has less lift anyways, so the wind will have less effect (I've known several 1010+ rated players who always putt like this inside 10' regardless of conditions).

I have an upside down turbo putt that works well.It doesnt fly it just drops.Learnerd it 20 years ago from some pros.

 

[PMantle1]

A 150-class (or even 165ish) putter works well if the wind is directly at your back. Add a little anhyzer angle and you'll get good glide without having to throw beyond a comfortable power level. I deal with windy conditions nearly every round since Ludington sits on Lake Michigan's west coast.

Releasing anhyzer, or even flat for that matter, is nearly impossible for me. Working on it though.

 

[zeike524]

Just curious how its impossible to release like that?

 

[PMantle1]

Just curious how its impossible to release like that?

I may have a deformity. Not sure.