The SW22 Swim Move

[slowplastic]

However when you separate the hands to a one-handed swing this changes where the swing center comes through inline both shoulders instead of perpendicular to shoulders/chest, so the trail side must counter the swing side. The backhand throw is more similar to pitching or bowling backhand, than batting or golf swing with two-hands, but if you swing the bat or club one-handed it's the same.

I have seen you say this a few times and I think I am finally understanding what you are meaning...but could you mark up an image to make it a bit more clear what you mean by swing center?

The way I am imagining it, in a BH throw the throwing arm extends out at the shoulder and shortly after the hit the arm is in line with both shoulders when everything fully releases. Whereas in two handed swings the torso moves with the swing and the impact or club feels like it releases kind of in the middle of your chest.

 

[sidewinder22]

I have seen you say this a few times and I think I am finally understanding what you are meaning...but could you mark up an image to make it a bit more clear what you mean by swing center?

The way I am imagining it, in a BH throw the throwing arm extends out at the shoulder and shortly after the hit the arm is in line with both shoulders when everything fully releases. Whereas in two handed swings the torso moves with the swing and the impact or club feels like it releases kind of in the middle of your chest.

Correct. Whoah I look just like a ballerina in the middle.

Two-Handed Swing Center ---- Both arms extended Swing Center ---- One-Arm Swing Center Shifted to Front Leg.

Two-Handed:

Both Arms Extended:

One Arm Feet Together Stance:

Swim from center:

 

[drk_evns]

This thread is exactly what I needed.

I'm working on this a lot. Currently my off arm is pretty inactive, tucked out of the way sort of left/behind my torso. Because of this, it's several inches away from my body when I swing.

When I try to get it in swim position (drew Gibson style), it seemingly gets in the way of my swing a little bit and makes it feel strange/out of control. I'm a big dude, but I'm wondering if it's just practice with that new position or I should try something other than what Drew Gibson does and try to keep it more out of the way.

 

[Lumberjack504]

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Fixed that for ya

 

[sidewinder22]

This thread is exactly what I needed.

I'm working on this a lot. Currently my off arm is pretty inactive, tucked out of the way sort of left/behind my torso. Because of this, it's several inches away from my body when I swing.

When I try to get it in swim position (drew Gibson style), it seemingly gets in the way of my swing a little bit and makes it feel strange/out of control. I'm a big dude, but I'm wondering if it's just practice with that new position or I should try something other than what Drew Gibson does and try to keep it more out of the way.

Drew Gibson used to be chubby and went overhead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOu8ePftkw#t=3m50s

Schwebby, big guy, former tennis player and USDGC Distance Champ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pglQGlTOh2o&t=3m39s

 

[drk_evns]

I'm doing almost the exact thing as that tennis player right now, except maybe not getting in quite as tight to my side.

Going to experiment with a few styles. I love the big arcing circle, it just looks cool haha

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm doing almost the exact thing as that tennis player right now, except maybe not getting in quite as tight to my side.

Going to experiment with a few styles. I love the big arcing circle, it just looks cool haha

Lol, that tennis player is Roger Federer - the goat!

 

[drk_evns]

Lol, that tennis player is Roger Federer - the goat!

I am way under-educated on the pro tennis scene, despite playing for several years when I was younger.

 

[axion]

So is it ok to go over the top?

I naturally like to kind GG my left arm, and I have noticed I throw a bit farther, but tend to miss my line a bit more.

Swimming under like most pros requires me to think in my swing, while the same move 'over the top' just happens without thought.

If you see that 360 I posted in my form thread I did it without thinking.

https://youtu.be/bFX9cn9g72I

 

[sidewinder22]

So is it ok to go over the top?

I naturally like to kind GG my left arm, and I have noticed I throw a bit farther, but tend to miss my line a bit more.

Swimming under like most pros requires me to think in my swing, while the same move 'over the top' just happens without thought.

If you see that 360 I posted in my form thread I did it without thinking.

https://youtu.be/bFX9cn9g72I

Absolutely! Whatever is most comfortable or natural to you. I'm not sure the full overhead works with 360s though, you never see those guys doing 360s in distance competition, even GG doesn't do 360s. I am all for experimentation like Bruce Lee.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.

Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.

Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.
A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.

 

[axion]

Great. I've tried to train it out of my throw, but it leaves me feeling 'loose' on the rear side when I don't do it

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

https://instagram.com/p/BpVjS3QFAYN/

I've been working on my 360, very slowly, but after I posted a thread on here about using it as a tool - it fell to the wayside. The thing I like about the 360 is that your body knows it has to brace in order to convert the spin to a forward ejection. The 2nd shot was legit 475' without using a distance line, which is about the best I've ever done. The offside swim move is something I can take out if I want to throw more touch and power down, or add in and get extra pace on the disc. It's become ingrained in my throwing and something I think only works when the timing is dialed and the swinging arm might really help with getting that timing fixed, if that's something a player is stuck on.

Great to see this thread revival

 

[deyo7]

It's interesting to me how early the pros seem to start bringing the arm in or - maybe better stated - prepare to bring the arm in tight. Yet they are still shifting weight from behind/hershyzering to the plant foot.

This might be Gibson's old form but see at 1:02-3 how he's already at least started/preparing to do swim move.

https://youtu.be/V6cfbVCUdBQ?t=63

 

[sidewinder22]

It's interesting to me how early the pros seem to start bringing the arm in or - maybe better stated - prepare to bring the arm in tight. Yet they are still shifting weight from behind/hershyzering to the plant foot.

This might be Gibson's old form but see at 1:02-3 how he's already at least started/preparing to do swim move.

https://youtu.be/V6cfbVCUdBQ?t=63

That's his new form.

IMO it's much easier to learn from his older form, same with McBeth. Their older forms are much more free wheeling. Now their form is all tightened up. I think you have to get to that free wheeling swing before you can tighten it up. You have to go through the same swing evolution they and myself did. I don't think you can really skip into their tight form without understand a free wheeling swing.

 

[deyo7]

That's his new form.

IMO it's much easier to learn from his older form, same with McBeth. Their older forms are much more free wheeling. Now their form is all tightened up. I think you have to get to that free wheeling swing before you can tighten it up. You have to go through the same swing evolution they and myself did. I don't think you can really skip into their tight form without understand a free wheeling swing.

Fair enough!

So which forms from post #s 19-20 could be considered "free wheeling" and easier & acceptable to learn from? And/or which should be saved for later? I wanna be free wheelin

 

[drk_evns]

After some experimentation I had interesting first results.

Pros:

The timing makes more sense now that I realize the arm is coming forward with the weight shift and I'm kind of directing that force right towards my front foot (brace).

When I did it right I saw increased distance.

My misses were early releases, nothing really went right. After tightening my grip a bit I think this was getting better

_

Cons:

The power pocket feels really crowded to me. My usual swim move sort of happens outside my torso, and never really gets in tight to my body or in the way of my swing. I'm worried about this messing with bringing the disc deep into the power pocket, but I haven't had a chance to look at myself on video.

I seemed to be releasing high when I stopped focusing.

Because I'm sort of throwing my arm forward into the brace, my trailing shoulder seems to be lower than my leading shoulder. Watching McBeth I see something similar, but I also thought this might be why I'm releasing high more often?

_

I think the cons might just be ironed out with practice and repetition. I also always think Paul's power pocket looks really crowded so maybe I'm on the right track and haven't gotten used to it yet. I've been throwing really well lately and I hate throwing a wrench into it, but I also want to continuously improve, so whatever. My season is over anyways, I played my last big tournament and won! First time I was able to string two hot rounds together and take first. Really seeing the dedication to field work this spring/summer pay off big time.

If there was a time for experimentation, it's now.

 

[sidewinder22]

Fair enough!

So which forms from post #s 19-20 could be considered "free wheeling" and easier & acceptable to learn from? And/or which should be saved for later? I wanna be free wheelin

Old Drew just like Linus Astrom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOu8ePftkw#t=3m50s

Although IMO the Best Free Wheeling Backswing involves a more forward pump and hop:

 

[deyo7]

Old Drew just like Linus Astrom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOu8ePftkw#t=3m50s

Although IMO the Best Free Wheeling Backswing involves a more forward pump and hop:

OK cool... so to clarify, as long as I'm doing the forward pump and hop then I'm free wheeling ...

I guess I meant, specifically, in terms of copying/learning the rear arm... are all fine to try out ("not tight/free wheeling")?

Edit: add: I guess in those gifs above of those hopping the rear arm is pretty similar.

 

[sidewinder22]

Cons:

The power pocket feels really crowded to me. My usual swim move sort of happens outside my torso, and never really gets in tight to my body or in the way of my swing. I'm worried about this messing with bringing the disc deep into the power pocket, but I haven't had a chance to look at myself on video.

I seemed to be releasing high when I stopped focusing.

Because I'm sort of throwing my arm forward into the brace, my trailing shoulder seems to be lower than my leading shoulder. Watching McBeth I see something similar, but I also thought this might be why I'm releasing high more often?

_

I think the cons might just be ironed out with practice and repetition. I also always think Paul's power pocket looks really crowded so maybe I'm on the right track and haven't gotten used to it yet.

If there was a time for experimentation, it's now.

Note how McBeth's rear arm is more out of the way(allowing a more free wheeling body pivot/arm swing back and forth) on his older form/distance throws: