Things need to change for the better of disc golf

[tbird888]

People that watch poker on TV probably play poker or have played poker in their lives.

I never played a single hand of poker before seeing it on TV (the Moneymaker event). With all the excitement they built, I actually tried it.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I think the folly of your argument is that you seem to think folks who don't play or don't pay attention care to watch disc golf at all. The people who watch videos online, whether live or edited, are disc golf enthusiasts.

People that watch poker on TV probably play poker or have played poker in their lives. People that watch baseball on TV probably play or have played baseball in their lives. People that are going to watch disc golf on TV (live or not) either play or have played the game in their lives.

Maybe, but I've never been able to respond to "What are you up to tonight" with "GBO is on tonight. Want to come over and watch?" Lots of people watch the superbowl for the party; youtube videos do not qualify as a party's focal point. Nothing that has to stream/load does, really.

 

[DavidSauls]

It is simply not true that those who don't think disc golf can hit the big time, don't want it to grow or don't care about the sport.

Oh, it's true for a few people, who want to keep it at the scale it is now. Or was 10 years ago. But only a few.

But most of us see disc golf as a rapidly and continuously growing participation sport, with very poor prospects as a spectator sport. In our judgement, wanting it to be one, pushing for it to be one, won't make a difference. The only thing that has a slight chance of getting it there is an enormous grassroots growth; at the point that we have vastly more players, especially kids, maybe enough will care to watch that advertisers will care to put money into it.

 

[disc qualified]

In my experience, people with limited disc golf knowledge have been intrigued when they see a good quality video for the first time. In particular I'm thinking of the USDGC videos. I have had people get lost in the zone watching for 10-15 minutes without saying a word. If it is filmed well, with good production values, people will watch. Add a top rate silky smooth announcer and people will listen as well.

 

[McFer]

But most of us see disc golf as a rapidly and continuously growing participation sport, with very poor prospects as a spectator sport. In our judgement, wanting it to be one, pushing for it to be one, won't make a difference. The only thing that has a slight chance of getting it there is an enormous grassroots growth; at the point that we have vastly more players, especially kids, maybe enough will care to watch that advertisers will care to put money into it.

/thread, and all future ones like it.

 

[turbosteve]

I haven't seen any of the EO broadcast. Any videos out for perusal by chance?

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1950263

 

[Dan Ensor]

It is simply not true that those who don't think disc golf can hit the big time, don't want it to grow or don't care about the sport.

Oh, it's true for a few people, who want to keep it at the scale it is now. Or was 10 years ago. But only a few.

But most of us see disc golf as a rapidly and continuously growing participation sport, with very poor prospects as a spectator sport. In our judgement, wanting it to be one, pushing for it to be one, won't make a difference. The only thing that has a slight chance of getting it there is an enormous grassroots growth; at the point that we have vastly more players, especially kids, maybe enough will care to watch that advertisers will care to put money into it.

They just don't care enough to realize that their overt pessimism IS blocking the growth of the sport. You put lots of characters on a page without saying anything but that you don't think it will happen. Is there some reason for that?

"It's a participation sport" ... well ... so is football. You only SAY it has poor spectator prospects. Let people think for themselves, man. Present your information, not your rhetoric.

 

[tbird888]

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1950263

Thank you.

They just don't care enough to realize that their overt pessimism IS blocking the growth of the sport. You put lots of characters on a page without saying anything but that you don't think it will happen. Is there some reason for that?

"It's a participation sport" ... well ... so is football. You only SAY it has poor spectator prospects. Let people think for themselves, man. Present your information, not your rhetoric.

You're starting to reach now, Dan. Disc golf, with its wooded courses that aren't conducive to good camera angles and spectator viewing areas, is well established as a participation sport. To deny that is lunacy.

 

[DavidSauls]

They just don't care enough to realize that their overt pessimism IS blocking the growth of the sport. You put lots of characters on a page without saying anything but that you don't think it will happen. Is there some reason for that?

"It's a participation sport" ... well ... so is football. You only SAY it has poor spectator prospects. Let people think for themselves, man. Present your information, not your rhetoric.

It's been presented so many times, it seems hardly worth the effort.

I'm very optimistic. I'm probably more involved and invested in various levels of disc golf than 99% of posters here. Well, maybe 97%.

Your pessimism is my realism.

The evidence so far is that few people care to watch disc golf. I've been in half the galleries at USDGC, probably our biggest spectator event. But it's clear that few disc golfers are willing to watch disc golf, and almost no non-disc golfers. That's when the attendance is free; paid attendance figures are dismal.

It's important to remember why anything is on TV. Football or poker or disc golf or American Idol. It's because sponsors are convinced that so many people will watch, that they can sell enough of their products to a tiny percentage of them, and make a profit that more than covers the cost of the production and air time. It's very hard to imagine convincing a sponsor to do so with disc golf.

Subjectively, I can't see disc golf being that entertaining to many people, either. I can barely watch it and, as I said, I'm pretty deeply involved. Sure, there are things on TV that I won't watch or you won't watch, but sponsors think a lot of people will watch them, and that's what counts.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Thank you.



You're starting to reach now, Dan. Disc golf, with its wooded courses that aren't conducive to good camera angles and spectator viewing areas, is well established as a participation sport. To deny that is lunacy.

I'm only denying that it has to be like that. We could forego wooded holes and put see-through nets up, for instance. (See what happened there? You gave me information that I could process and respond to:clap I'm not saying that's what we should do, just what we could do. There are some par 3s in trad golf that are not conducive to spectators. We can, in the future, make disc golf courses more spectator friendly. Or we could start the spectator side by televising/gallerizing skills competitions. Or we could try to get disc chucking into the field competitions (track/field).

I don't know what the [best] way to do it is, but I'm sure we haven't exhausted the possibilities.

Just came to me, weren't some people unhappy they didn't show the putting or skillshot comps this week? Why didn't they? Wasn't that the most epic thing that happened? First sweep ever (MTL believes)?

 

[tbird888]

I'm only denying that it has to be like that. We could forego wooded holes and put see-through nets up, for instance. (See what happened there? You gave me information that I could process and respond to:clap I'm not saying that's what we should do, just what we could do. There are some par 3s in trad golf that are not conducive to spectators. We can, in the future, make disc golf courses more spectator friendly. Or we could start the spectator side by televising/gallerizing skills competitions. Or we could try to get disc chucking into the field competitions (track/field).

I don't know what the [best] way to do it is, but I'm sure we haven't exhausted the possibilities.

Not even going to address the nets over trees thing...

As much as I hate to disagree with you, I don't think things'll change in terms of coverage until youtube quality grows even further. We're in a pretty good position to have personal cameras not only be very affordable, but to have a free sharing medium where we can try new things. Central Coast's addition of commentary has been wonderful, not to mention the (and lcgm8(?), benfts, pineapple trees, and many others) extreme increase in coverage quality in the last year. I know there is more in the works too and am looking forward to it coming. It's just going to take time.

All that said, the other alternative is you getting out there yourself and making your dream come true. Join the party and help accelerate the process. :thmbup:

 

[DavidSauls]

It is an interesting thought that in the next few years, personal cameras and remote control helicopter cameras might really expand the quality of disc golf videos.

I know looking at the videos Kelly made at Flyboy, and the video of Riverview Park in Augusta, GA, you can see the possibilities. With technology changing so quickly, who knows?

That's just one hurdle, but a big one.

 

[B3NDER]

Well considering we seem to have a disc golf television expert among our ranks, why doesn't HE just start up a disc golf channel. He makes it sound so easy and appealing after all. :|

 

[tbird888]

It is an interesting thought that in the next few years, personal cameras and remote control helicopter cameras might really expand the quality of disc golf videos.

I know looking at the videos Kelly made at Flyboy, and the video of Riverview Park in Augusta, GA, you can see the possibilities. With technology changing so quickly, who knows?

That's just one hurdle, but a big one.

I'm looking forward to seeing the copter cams put to use. Hopefully they're a sooner than later possibility.

Thinking back on my round there, I think Stoney Hill has tremendous potential as a course for hosting one of these televised events. Not that you would that headache...

 

[DavidSauls]

We'd have to really cut the grass.

Ah, the place for a great video might be the Memorial. Gorgeous, groomed courses, pretty open for ease of shooting, and perhaps a little hype as the first event of the NT tour, and something of a kickoff to the disc golf year.

To make it work, here are some items for the checklist:

---Figure out how to make a disc golf broadcast really compelling, not just to disc golfers but to the general public. These is where the new technology may come in.
---Decide whether to broadcast it live, or delayed. Live has its own special problems. Delayed is, well, not live.
---Decide whether to go internet, or try for TV.
---Figure the costs, both for production and airtime.
---Barring a powerball win, find someone with lots of money who'll listen.
---Convince them that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are sure to watch.

 

[tbird888]

We'd have to really cut the grass.

Ah, the place for a great video might be the Memorial. Gorgeous, groomed courses, pretty open for ease of shooting, and perhaps a little hype as the first event of the NT tour, and something of a kickoff to the disc golf year.

To make it work, here are some items for the checklist:

---Figure out how to make a disc golf broadcast really compelling, not just to disc golfers but to the general public. These is where the new technology may come in.
---Decide whether to broadcast it live, or delayed. Live has its own special problems. Delayed is, well, not live.
---Decide whether to go internet, or try for TV.
---Figure the costs, both for production and airtime.
---Barring a powerball win, find someone with lots of money who'll listen.
---Convince them that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are sure to watch.

The Memorial is the easiest to film for sure, but I don't think it's truly representative of what our sport has to offer.

 

[DavidSauls]

Perhaps, then, the USDGC, which is also pretty open and has the benefit of galleries, at least on the final day.

Maybe something like Renny would be a top test, but it would be a challenge to shoot, doesn't always manage galleries well, and isn't exactly scenic.

*

I realize my checklist a few posts back was only for a single event. Multiply the logistics for a long-running series, including paying and keeping the video crew on the road.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Well considering we seem to have a disc golf television expert among our ranks, why doesn't HE just start up a disc golf channel. He makes it sound so easy and appealing after all. :|

Yep. Who knows how to rob a bank? (step 1)

Nice avatar:clap:

 

[Dan Ensor]

Not even going to address the nets over trees thing...

As much as I hate to disagree with you, I don't think things'll change in terms of coverage until youtube quality grows even further. We're in a pretty good position to have personal cameras not only be very affordable, but to have a free sharing medium where we can try new things. Central Coast's addition of commentary has been wonderful, not to mention the (and lcgm8(?), benfts, pineapple trees, and many others) extreme increase in coverage quality in the last year. I know there is more in the works too and am looking forward to it coming. It's just going to take time.

All that said, the other alternative is you getting out there yourself and making your dream come true. Join the party and help accelerate the process. :thmbup:

You didn't disagree with me, did you? I don't think we're doing anything wrong, as a sport. I think there were some very destructive opinions stated in this thread. If the trend continues, it seems like dg will be on tv within the decade (maybe 2). Certain opinions, though, can retard the growth of the sport merely by being voiced. ... I'm struggling to not start to rant ... /post

 

[scarpfish]

If the trend continues, it seems like dg will be on tv within the decade (maybe 2).

God, I hope not. Within a decade (maybe 2) television as we've always known it is going to be a shadow of its present self, which is already a shadow of its former self. Youtube, your smartphone, etc. That's the future.

Certain opinions, though, can retard the growth of the sport merely by being voiced. ...

You give us realistic folks too much credit. Just tell us to shut up if you don't like hearing the truth.

I've been railing against this puffy sweet vision of televised disc golf growing the sport since I've been here. About 1,600 courses have gone in the ground in the US alone, and we've have scads of new molds to try from new upstart companies and the big two alike. PDGA membership and tournament attendance is up too.

Yeah, I'm really going to do all that in just by voicing my opinion here.