DGPT Adjusts Schedule to Protect Conpet

[Skamanda]

It’s difficult to believe anything you say when you repeatedly post lies such as this one.

Injunctions and restraining orders aren't granted willy nilly

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Great choice, I was anticipating this. Hopefully this means better venues for the FPO instead of shortened versions of MPO ball golf courses.

That may be a nice positive thought... woods golf is my preference to watch.

This “strategy” sounds quite expensive.

Curious the financial breakdown of doing “this” versus the litigations. Is it really cheaper to spread their resources thin like this? Does this correlate to “having more resources to grow the sport”?

I honestly don’t know. Just curious.

That's what I'm thinking, obviously lawyers are a lot more expensive than a camera crew for coverage, depending on the tournament schedule maybe the camera work gets better too?

There could be a benefit for lesser courses to get a little extra money and recognition for hosting FPO.

Downside is disc golf couples will be split from their respective tournaments or anyone who typically travels together with a friend of the opposite sex. That is just more expense for accommodation and travel for everyone, including camera crews, vendors, etc. If someone has a job/financial interest in DG then they may have to choose which event to cover.

The short end of it is resources and community will be divided. Female DG will suffer, lack of resources, players and interest.

The PDGA has dug in, their financial reasoning is logical. There was never that much money there to begin with, last minute lawsuits can't be fought that fast and they don't plan to change their mind.

People like Natalie want to play and fight the PDGA, their strategy is sound, last minute lawsuits can't be fought that fast and they don't plan to change their mind. Acceptance or nothing.

Basically it squeezes everyone to pick a side and decide who is in the wrong. It's going to garner hate and female disc golf is getting set back a decade.

 

[BillFleming]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the couples who caddy for each other. I'm sure there is more than one couple where one plays MPO, the other plays FPO, and they caddy for each other when tee times allow it. And playing couples who will now need two vehicles, hotels, etc for each tournament.

 

[Skamanda]

Are we talking about maybe 50 trans women at the most that have competed? You can’t extrapolate based on such a small sample size.

And you also conveniently ignore there are at least two trans women who won the title of “World Champion.” Some would argue (and in fact many did) that they had a “sort of biological advantage.”

If you'd ever read anything, I actually cover that in the article I wrote

https://throwproud.com/pdga-gender/

 

[Shallows]

Are we talking about maybe 50 trans women at the most that have competed? You can’t extrapolate based on such a small sample size.

And you also conveniently ignore there are at least two trans women who won the title of “World Champion.” Some would argue (and in fact many did) that they had a “sort of biological advantage.”

Women are lying when they say they it’s about fairness and competitive standards. Women don’t like to play with transwomen because they find them creepy and gross.

 

[MikeK]

It will be interesting to see how this short term, separate state strategy works where needed. If it "works", will it mean they continue the separate states procedure next year, they avoid holding elite events in controversial states or a combination?

Regrettably Chuck, I think it means the eventual end to the FPO side of the DGPT. I doubt the DGPT has enough resources to battle this out in the courts and/or hire separate staff or media for FPO.

Ironically, I remember just a couple years ago when DGPT awarded the same prize money to the FPO tour champion as the MPO champion—which was widely cheered on by women of all persuasions.

 

[Dcinmd]

Pretty sure there isn't a worse way for the DGPT to handle this issue.

 

[Dcinmd]

Regrettably Chuck, I think it means the eventual end to the FPO side of the DGPT. I doubt the DGPT has enough resources to battle this out in the courts and/or hire separate staff or media for FPO.

How large is Natalie's lawyers slush fund? 10% of DGPT?

 

[sillybizz]

Women are lying when they say they it’s about fairness and competitive standards. Women don’t like to play with transwomen because they find them creepy and gross.

Are you Mel Gibson from 'What Women Want'? Try listening and not assuming a bunch of things.

 

[Skamanda]

Can't help but feel for the FPO touring players. Buy a van, pay to retrofit it for touring, quit your day job and all the expenses that go with the decision to try to make a living out of a sport they love. Only to have a group of middle age men, living in a world of fear and hate, trash your world. Is that the "fair" part of this? They cannot ban trans athletes legally...so their hate and fear are SO strong, they would rather just dump all FPO? That does not even make sense to me. What is next....skin color, religion preference, sexual preference? My vote is the genetically superior. Fit, tall, long, strong...let's get these dang people out of the game.

The attempt is going to likely be to blame trans players for the move...but, that is a logic flaw and nonsensical. I hope the FPO file a discrimination lawsuit.

When Natalie and I were talking about it earlier, this was the main part we discussed.

More discrimination against us? Whatever, it's just a typical Friday.

They screwed ALL the FPO players?! Aww hell no! I don't care how many of them disagree with us playing - that decision was beyond the pale.

 

[Shallows]

Are you Mel Gibson from 'What Women Want'? Try listening and not assuming a bunch of things.

It’s literally illegal in many states to voice the latter beliefs publicly. Not that that’s a bad thing.

 

[Skamanda]

Per the PDGA survey and the public statements of the FPO players, the women in question desire a more exclusive policy then MPO competitors.

My non-disc-golfer friend's 8 survey submissions as a "DGPT Women" respondent say that might not be the data set you want to use to back up something like this...

 

[Shallows]

My non-disc-golfer friend's 8 survey submissions as a "DGPT Women" respondent say that might not be the data set you want to use to back up something like this...

Per the publication document those duplicate entries were removed from the data pool unless your non disc golfer friend has an email address that matches the appropriate set of PDGA #s.

 

[sillybizz]

It’s literally illegal in many states to voice the latter beliefs publicly. Not that that’s a bad thing.

Speech that isn't inciting violence is illegal now? Since when? Not going for a tongue in cheek response, I'm curious if I missed this.

 

[Skamanda]

Per the publication document those duplicate entries were removed from the data pool unless your non disc golfer friend has an email address that matches the appropriate set of PDGA #s.

Really? Then how do you account for there being more DGPT Women respondents, than there are women with a tour card?

 

[Skamanda]

Speech that isn't inciting violence is illegal now? Since when? Not going for a tongue in cheek response, I'm curious if I missed this.

A lot of states are passing more strict hate speech laws, that a lot of people are misinterpreting.

My favorite twist on them is when people think using the wrong pronouns will be a felony

 

[sillybizz]

A lot of states are passing more strict hate speech laws, that a lot of people are misinterpreting.

My favorite twist on them is when people think using the wrong pronouns will be a felony

lol.

I'm not a big fan of making speech illegal unless it's inciting violence. The Supreme Court has said basically the same. I don't think these laws will hold up under scrutiny of the court when challenged. It's a slippery slope to allow unpopular speech to be criminalized. I guess that's not really pertinent to the thread so I digress....

 

[MikeK]

If you'd ever read anything, I actually cover that in the article I wrote

https://throwproud.com/pdga-gender/

Actually—if you read your own linked article—you somehow conveniently left out, in your summary of Nova’s career, that she won the title of PDGA World Champion.

Do you see why people would not trust you when you attempt to mislead them?

And, since you can’t provide any link to a ruling in either DGPT case, we must also conclude that you were dishonest when you implied the courts had made a final judgement that DGPT was discriminating.

Typically when your falsehoods are disproven is when you cry to 3Putt to destroy the evidence. I’ll screenshot this post for later after 3Putt locks or deletes this thread in order to prevent further embarrassment.

 

[kerq6c]

Actually—if you read your own linked article—you somehow conveniently left out, in your summary of Nova’s career, that she won the title of PDGA World Champion.

Do you see why people would not trust you when you attempt to mislead them?

What's fair 4th paragraph down it's mentioned, I haven't gotten farther to read more. So.....

The PDGA/DGPT ruling is causing so much financial stress for one and soon possibly both.

Quick edit for clairty. Skamanda mentions Nova being World champion at least twice that I can see. So it was not left out.

 

[sillybizz]

If you'd ever read anything, I actually cover that in the article I wrote

https://throwproud.com/pdga-gender/

Thank you for the article. I think the best way to break through the regular talking points and tribalism of both sides is to look at the science of the matter and you cover that in the article well.

"if a transgender woman complies with the IOC’s regulations (testosterone suppression to less than 10 nmol/L for a period of at least 12 months), they are competing on even footing with their cisgender competitors. Any differences in distance are caused by differences in technique, not physiology."

I think the science lines up well with your quote above.