Timing and the Schusterich lean back

[timothy42b]

I've been watching that standstill throw of Will Schusterich that everybody has. I've saved the link on all my computers now. I only throw standstill (with front foot step).

I'm trying to understand timing the turn back, reach back, and step forward.

Based on advice here a couple days ago, I've been trying to turn back simultaneously as I step forward with the front foot. I don't really reach back separately from the turn, the body turn is the reach back.

But now that I look more closely at Will, he starts his motion with a lean back, no turn no reach. At the end of his lean, he steps forward and turns back together. His back foot is driving his step forward, I think.

Am I seeing this right?

 

[slicknic007]

With a proper reach back, you want your back leg to support most of your weight. This allows you to shift that weight forward to the front foot to help generate power. What will is doing is getting that weight shifted back that would normally be done by the "X" portion of the run up/X-step. Whether you are doing a full run up or just a standstill, proper weight shift remains a crucial part of the throwing form.

 

[sidewinder22]

Will's standstill with the lean back is hard to learn(and not really necessary), most people that let the rear knee drift behind the rear ankle end up spinning out their leverage trying to make it back forward(the most important part).

I use more of a standard golf backswing, the backswing brings/pulls my weight to the inside of the rear foot/instep, and once the disc goes weightless from being tossed back I start striding forward equal and opposite to the top of the backswing/transition forward.

 

[timothy42b]

thanks

Thanks, putting those two videos in the same post really helped me understand.

 

[rhatton1]

Will's standstill with the lean back is hard to learn(and not really necessary), most people that let the rear knee drift behind the rear ankle end up spinning out their leverage trying to make it back forward(the most important part).

This this this.

The amount of people i've seen totally messing up after seeing that video and leaning way out of posture, they end up swinging the upper half of their body backwards and then forwards .

It works for him. IMO it's not a good way to learn and doesn't add anything but unnecessary complexity.

Sidewinders form breaks it down to the most simple version and gives a great building block for just about any body type or level of athleticism.

 

[SimonF88]

In that stand still throw of yours sidewinder, what are you doing with your hips activly?

 

[sidewinder22]

In that stand still throw of yours sidewinder, what are you doing with your hips activly?

Well the short answer is - the same thing Ben Hogan did. In the backswing I'm bracing the rear leg and loading/pivoting the rear hip into internal rotation and wiping the left butt cheek forward along the wall toward the target from behind me/ backing into the target, while striding the front leg. Once the front leg plants and braces the front hip goes into internal hip rotation and clears/pivots in place so the right butt cheek then wipes the wall away from the target, while the rear hip is externally rotating and left butt cheek rotates away from the wall, so the pelvis rotation is very centered after the plant. The rear foot everts from maintaining rear side external rotation/torque with a forward move and the front foot pivots to release the torque after impact.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[zj1002]

This this this.

The amount of people i've seen totally messing up after seeing that video and leaning way out of posture, they end up swinging the upper half of their body backwards and then forwards .

It works for him. IMO it's not a good way to learn and doesn't add anything but unnecessary complexity.

Sidewinders form breaks it down to the most simple version and gives a great building block for just about any body type or level of athleticism.

Definitely agree. This is why you don't really want to copy someones form, just try it and see how you can apply the concept to your throw. Will and Simons throws are very hard to replicate because of their body styles.

The main thing to take from Will's form is how much weight shift he generates. He really bends his knees and clears his hips better than most. It is a very athletic throw, that most people just aren't built to do. But the key things like bending the knees and staying on your toes are simple things a lot of people miss even when trying to copy his throw.

Simon for example is able to get the disc forward better than just about anyone else. This is part of his HUGE distance. But you can get the disc forward like that without trying to throw like Simon.

Figure out why someone does something, apply the concept and build your own style.

 

[SimonF88]

You mean he gets the disc forward more than others at the right pec or that he holds onto the disc longer?

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

You mean he gets the disc forward more than others at the right pec or that he holds onto the disc longer?

This has some good stuff regarding Simon's throw. http://www.heavydisc.com/search?upd...:00-07:00&max-results=2&start=4&by-date=false

Check screen caps 2 and 3 towards the bottom of the article.

 

[timothy42b]

Something I noticed this week and am wondering about.

I usually throw standing. I tried a few step behind shots (back foot steps deep behind the front foot, front foot steps forward, plant and throw.) I was getting a huge distance increase.

Trying to figure out why, I came up with this. With the step behind, the pull was coming much later after the plant. Instead of plant and pull, it's plant pause pull. Maybe? A timing thing?

 

[frdyno]

Something I noticed this week and am wondering about.

I usually throw standing. I tried a few step behind shots (back foot steps deep behind the front foot, front foot steps forward, plant and throw.) I was getting a huge distance increase.

Trying to figure out why, I came up with this. With the step behind, the pull was coming much later after the plant. Instead of plant and pull, it's plant pause pull. Maybe? A timing thing?

Ive wondered this myself. As I can throw just as far with a run up, as I can standing still. So my timing is off somewhere. and the run up is literally doing nothing for me.

 

[timothy42b]

I think what baseball calls the Timing Step is the loading of the rear leg.

http://baseballswingmechanics.com/04-timingstep-text/

And I think Crush the Can is baseball's Launch Phase,
http://baseballswingmechanics.com/07-continuation-timing-step-text/

the step back down that occurs before the backswing is completed.

Maybe. Baseball is different because some reaction time must be built into the swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think what baseball calls the Timing Step is the loading of the rear leg.

http://baseballswingmechanics.com/04-timingstep-text/

And I think Crush the Can is baseball's Launch Phase,
http://baseballswingmechanics.com/07-continuation-timing-step-text/

the step back down that occurs before the backswing is completed.

Maybe. Baseball is different because some reaction time must be built into the swing.

Pretty much. The Double Can Crush does both.

 

[timothy42b]

Thanks, good to know I'm not misunderstanding too much. I probably should stop thinking about this stuff and just do the drills more.

The baseball article says lifting the front foot puts weight on the back foot even though your center of gravity hasn't moved back. That seems close to what Shawn Clement is saying. My image has been that the reach back is what weights the back foot. Maybe there's a little of both.

It also says lifting the front foot gives some forward momentum because the center of gravity is forward of your back foot and you fall forward into the brace. Hmm. You still need to drive off the back foot though.