Tournament Play and Minor Infractions.

[rickgz]

Hello All,

I hope I am askeing this in the right section, if not perhaps the Mods can move it.

I had an unpleasent situation happen to me at a 2 day tournament this weekend concerning being called on a very minor infraction (twice) that cost me a couple of strokes. I am asking for your collective wisdom as to your take on the situation.

First off, I have read the rule book and do try hard to play within the rules whether it be solo play by myself or with friends, scrambles or sanctioned tournaments.

What I was called on, was for touching my marker disc when making upshots 100 feet or more from the basket, in other words not Putts. The touching was very incidental which probably happened as I looked at different angles before throwing and not looking down and double checking my foot before throwing. My foot was maybe touching the outer rim of the marker, and possibly on it by maybe an 1/4 " or causing the marker to move by the same amount after throwing. Like I said, very incidental with no intent for a tactical advantage, nor would there be a tactitcal advantage. It is not as if I kicked the marker away or completey stepped on it.

The person who called me on it did give me a warning yesterday which kind of stunned everyone else in the group, and then called me on it twice today without warning, even after I was obviously trying to comply with his warning. The other person on the card who confirmed it for the penalty, took me aside and told me it was BS but it is the rule, and he saw me touch the mini so he confirmed and I was stroked. The 2nd time I believe I did not touch, but that a twig underneath my marker and foot had caused the motion.

Now I have been stroked before, for OB's, throwing from the wrong tee, and for miss counting my card before turning it in, and have no issues with that as they are major infractions, but I thought what happened to me at this tourny was very petty and everyone I discussed it with including the TD whom I know fairly well agreed.

At the end of the round after calming down, I told the person that I felt he was being petty as it was incidental, no intent, and that this was not a pro tourny or even a B event but a local C event that is put on for fun.

I will mention that the fellow who called me, I was leading by one stroke going into todays final round and we were #1 & #2. Fortunately, even with the strokes I led him by 3 more strokes at the tournament's end, but it did allow #3 to catch up and tie me. I did prevail in the throw off and he too thought it was quite petty and that he would never have done so.

So my question is, in tournament play (amature not Pro) do you call other players out on very minor incidental infractions that would have no bearing on the play?

FWIW, this was Advanced Grandmasters, so I wasn't dealing with some young hotshot.

Thanks for your insight.

Rick G

 

[DangeRuss]

No I don't call other people out for minor things like that but I do also understand the rules and realize it's illegal. Now the question becomes why do/will people call it and there is no answer for that.

 

[rickgz]

Glad I am not the only one! Thanks for the support.

Funny, after he called me out, I started watching him like a hawk. I actually saw him touch his mini enough to make it move at least and inch or two, and I gave him a warning which he clearly did not like, but accepted. A hole or two later I believe he foot faulted when stepping out from behind some trees had his other foot slightly ahead of his lie, I was going to say something, but did not want to start a war and just kept my mouth shut and continued play.

Do have to say, the 2nd half of our round was quite chilled with out the usual jovelty and laughter that I enjoy so much.

At least I prevailed at the end! :clap:

Rick G

 

[Will Burke]

I wouldn't call it because quite honestly I don't really pay attention to other's feet when they are throwing. Also if the player questioned said that a stick moved it I take their word and side with the thrower.

 

[mashnut]

Here's the thing, you may not feel like you got an advantage by having your foot 1/4" too far forward, but you gain an advantage when you don't have to put in the effort and attention to make sure you don't make that kind of little mistake. It sounds like the guy tried to give you a warning (and probably should have given you a warning the first time it happened on the second day), but it is a rule and there is an advantage in not following it.

 

[SirWalter]

If I am reading your post correctly you should have only been stroked once.
The first day he gave you a warning which is correct.
The first violation the second day should have also been a warning and you throw again no penalty.
The second violation the second day is the only one that should have resulted in a stroke penalty.

 

[rickgz]

If I am reading your post correctly you should have only been stroked once.
The first day he gave you a warning which is correct.
The first violation the second day should have also been a warning and you throw again no penalty.
The second violation the second day is the only one that should have resulted in a stroke penalty.

The warning the first day, I was not asked to rethrow, he just stated loudly that I touched my marker and that was my warning. Today, when it happened he said that again, that I touched my mini but did not ask for confirmation until play of the hole was over and when the other fellow confirmed, I was just stroked.

Rick G

 

[NOStheBOSS]

Well if you're Going to be called on rule infractions, it has to be done correctly. It has to be called immediately and then you rethrow without penalty on the warning. And if he called you on this and he did the exact same thing himself, why in the world would you keep your mouth shut? There's no way he should get mad or start a war if what you are saying is true, if he does then he should not be playing competitively and be disqualified

I know you said you read the book but when people spout bs like this you have to be able to call them on it

 

[msfried53]

If I am reading your post correctly you should have only been stroked once.
The first day he gave you a warning which is correct.
The first violation the second day should have also been a warning and you throw again no penalty.
The second violation the second day is the only one that should have resulted in a stroke penalty.

I am only an am but do rifle through the rules quite a bit. To my interpretation, this is the correct ruling. All warnings recent after every round, they do not carry forward.

 

[msfried53]

I am only an am but do rifle through the rules quite a bit. To my interpretation, this is the correct ruling. All warnings recent after every round, they do not carry forward.

Adding on to this, it does have to be called immediately after the infraction by 2 people. The shooter is also supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt like in that stick situation. Remember if you disagree with something you can always do a provisional and bring it up to the TD later.

 

[DavidSauls]

I have no problem with people calling any rules. And yet....

I've never known anyone to call the footfault that tight.

Should it happen again---besides bearing in mind the previous posts about the correct use of warnings and penalties---keep in mind that you don't have to plant your foot that close to the mini. You can set up 10" behind it, and avoid the possibility of a footfault.

But I'll bet, unless you play with the same individual, you'll never encounter it again.

 

[rickgz]

I am well aware of the 10cm rule, it is just a bad habit (that I need to break) of putting my foot just behind my mini by about an inch.

If nothing else, I do have a better understanding of the foot fault rule now. Funny, I usually carry my rule book, but had taken it out of the side pocket of my bag to make room for my parka as it was raining off and on and could not check the rule myself.

Thanks for all the advice and support.

Rick G

 

[Craig639]

Here's the thing, you may not feel like you got an advantage by having your foot 1/4" too far forward, but you gain an advantage when you don't have to put in the effort and attention to make sure you don't make that kind of little mistake. It sounds like the guy tried to give you a warning (and probably should have given you a warning the first time it happened on the second day), but it is a rule and there is an advantage in not following it.

This.
It may seem incidental / insignificant, but to the player who has to consciously think about making a legal throw, this matters. Its a lot easier to throw willy nilly instead of releasing from the confines of the area described in 893.04 A (1).

You have nearly a foot wiggle room, why crowd your marker?

 

[jimimc]

Please don't take this the wrong way, there are no minor rule infractions. To some people drinking and getting high during the round is just the way the game is played, but will call a foot fault in a heart beat. Another person will carry and use an unmarked disc, but call a 30 second violation. What's the difference in foot faulting on a putt, approach or a drive? Mashnut is right, the advantage comes from the person not having to worry about it. Does a person really get an advantage if he's touching or stepping on his mini during a putt? No, but he has to be aware of where his foot is adding another variable.

 

[ScottyLove]

Totally disagree with the spirit of this post. The level of the tournament is irrelevant. Nobody will take our sport serious if we don't enforce our own rules... major or minor.

While this one may have not been administered correctly, the call should be made if you touched your marker... PERIOD.

 

[rickgz]

This.
It may seem incidental / insignificant, but to the player who has to consciously think about making a legal throw, this matters. Its a lot easier to throw willy nilly instead of releasing from the confines of the area described in 893.04 A (1).

You have nearly a foot wiggle room, why crowd your marker?

I certainly was not throwing "willy nilly" as it was obvious I was being very careful to be directly behind the marker and not off to either side. I was also making sure my other foot was not forward of my lie. Maybe I was trying to be too careful, and need to take advantage more of the 10cm rule.

I do appreciate the advice though.

Rick G

 

[Craig639]

*30 centimeters

 

[rickgz]

*30 centimeters

I stand corrected yet again! I got confused as 30cm is about 10 inches.

Rick G

 

[bnbanbury]

While i don't disagree with the other player's decision to enforce stance violation that occurred it does bother me that the rule was enforced so incorrectly. The first stance violation required you to rethrow after your warning, as a throw from an illegal stance cannot be counted. The second round the 1st violation was also a warning as warnings do not carry over from round to round but also would have required a rethrow. You didn't state how the 3rd penalty was enforced exactly but if he had again waited until after you had holed out to get a second to his call and tried at that point to assess a penalty the call would have been made incorrectly and disregarded. The call has to be made promptly and you have to rethrow before proceeding with the hole. Don't allow someone to enforce the rules however they want, make sure you know the proper procedures for next time.

 

[prerube]

Did anyone else see it/ second it?