Trying to Perfect Technique

[silvereagle2150]

Hi all-

I feel like a serious minority on the chat boards, so be nice to the new girl!

I've been dabbling with disc dyeing for a while now, and it's gotten some attention at the local courses. Not only do I have people asking me to dye discs for them, but the smaller tournaments have asked me if I would be interested in dyeing tournament stamps and prize discs for them.

I will be making the plotter investment shortly (it's nice to have connections in the sign-making industry. I'm getting a used plotter for next to nothing in a couple weeks), and I wanted to post a couple pictures of my hand-cut, single color dyes.

Also, if anyone would be willing to engage me in a discussion about multi-color dyes, I would appreciate the direction. I have my own dye formula pretty much figured out, but I'm nervous about embarking on a multi-colored venture until I have a better sense of how it works.

In addition, I am more than willing to take orders for custom-dyed discs. I work with a local disc golf shop that provides me with any disc in any color (and is even willing to special order for me), so feel free to PM me with any questions, or e-mail me at [email protected].

Thanks all!


- These dyes are on 175g crystal champ Destroyers-

- This is a 163g cloudy/clear QJLS -

 

[silvereagle2150]

So, I have no idea if those pictures are showing up or not....lol. If not, here's the link to my Flickr page, which lists them all as well. Only the blue tribal is not a destroyer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48810514@N07/

 

[AciDBatH666]

Well what do you want to know about Multi colored dyes?
Ask away

 

[silvereagle2150]

Because I am getting a plotter, I know that I will be able to do more complex work and utilize different colors.

I also know that I have to work from darkest color to lightest color. However, my concern is that, after I pull the first pieces of vinyl and start the first color, the other cuts I have made in the vinyl will bleed. Must I cover the rest of the design while I dye each color?

In addition, if I dye black, then blue, then yellow, will the yellow turn the blue dye green? Should I be covering or remasking in this instance as well?

Also, I have only ever used a 'dipping' method - flipping the disc upsidown in a pot of steaming Rit, though I have seen people on here make mention of using a thicker rit mixture and painting it on. Is the color as consistent as liquid when done that way?

I know these are a lot of questions, but there's only so much a tutorial guide can mention!

 

[AciDBatH666]

Because I am getting a plotter, I know that I will be able to do more complex work and utilize different colors.
I also know that I have to work from darkest color to lightest color. However, my concern is that, after I pull the first pieces of vinyl and start the first color, the other cuts I have made in the vinyl will bleed. Must I cover the rest of the design while I dye each color?

If all of your image is completely cut out when you're doing your first color, the only bleeding you should get is the lines between the cuts will get each color you die. Quick example...Captain America shield. Red and blue dye on a white disc.
You cover the white star in the middle with vinyl and several of the outside rings that will be white.
Dye your blue first since it's darker. Next you need red, but you'll have to cover the blue back up because if you don't your blue is going to turn into Blue + Red. Which Im not sure what that is on the color wheel, but it could be a blood stained brownish red.

If you were doing a 2 color design with Black and any other color, it's easy. Do the black first and then your other color second. The 2nd color is going to dye over the black, which'll just make it darker. You should haven't problems with bleeds if your cut lines are all smooth and precise, and considering you pressed all the edges firmly onto the disc.

In addition, if I dye black, then blue, then yellow, will the yellow turn the blue dye green? Should I be covering or remasking in this instance as well?

Yes, this is subjective, but you will need to cover them if they are lighter colors. I've done some LSU dyes doing purple first, and then just going ahead and doing yellow on top of the purple. The purple changed a little, but it wasn't really dramatic because I left it in the pan just long enough to let the yellow absorb and show up on the disc. I didn't let the yellow absorb and be super intense, thus changing the purple too much from the original intention.
If you're talking about lighter colors (Yellows, light blues, light greens)... Then yes, remasking is the best way to preserve the intended color you're aiming for for doing a multi colored dye.

Also, I have only ever used a 'dipping' method - flipping the disc upsidown in a pot of steaming Rit, though I have seen people on here make mention of using a thicker rit mixture and painting it on. Is the color as consistent as liquid when done that way?

You can use whatever works for you. Some ppl use dye mixed with dishwashing detergent to thicken it up. I've done some hand painted dyes with acetone and straight rit before. It's a little runny, but it's controllable. Also, you have to be careful with using acetone with your mix because if it's too strong it'll start to eat at your vinyl masking for your dye outline. It'll pull the edges away from the disc and that perfect edge that your masking is preserving is compromised.

 

[silvereagle2150]

Acid, thanks for the help. I'll be testing out the multi-colors in the next couple days, starting with black + color and finishing with three or more.

I was hoping that rit+acetone (or detergent) mixture would at least work passably well. More than anything I would like to use it for touch-ups, detailing, and spaces that could use color, but not enough for a full dip.

Any guesses as to how long dye miixtures can keep? I've read that people store their dyes, but how long do they stay useful?

 

[silvereagle2150]

Ok, I found a way to post the pictures.... My bad for trying to use Flickr incorrectly!


- These are all 175g champ Destroyers -

- 163g Cloudy/Clear QJLS -

 

[chiggins]

Also, you have to be careful with using acetone with your mix because if it's too strong it'll start to eat at your vinyl masking for your dye outline. It'll pull the edges away from the disc and that perfect edge that your masking is preserving is compromised.

Question about this: Would using something dilute (like nail polish remover) work and be lower risk? Or does it have to be full strength acetone?

 

[AciDBatH666]

I've been using the same black, blue, red, yellow, gold, and purple for nearly 9 months.
Just add water here and there when I have to do big batches of dyes all in a row and I turn up the heat a little more than usual to get the dyes to absorb faster.

 

[AciDBatH666]

Also, you have to be careful with using acetone with your mix because if it's too strong it'll start to eat at your vinyl masking for your dye outline. It'll pull the edges away from the disc and that perfect edge that your masking is preserving is compromised.

Question about this: Would using something dilute (like nail polish remover) work and be lower risk? Or does it have to be full strength acetone?

I use acetone because it's what I started doing dyes with. You could put it in something else and dilute it. But I know for a fact that when I put some rit crystals in some acetone and brush it into a disc, I get the exact texture I'm looking for. It's not great for some things, but when I wanna brush on some colors in small spots it's what I do. Everyone is different tho. Try things out. Me and Chuck and some other ppl on here are always telling ppl to try it out, and tell everyone on the forum what your results are.

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16335
There's a Pink Floyd one I did strictly with acetone and rit.

 

[Jeronimo]

omggurls

 

[dgdave]

Hey! I'm a Normanite too. Will you be at the throwdown?

 

[silvereagle2150]

Hey! I'm a Normanite too. Will you be at the throwdown?

I absolutely will be! I'll be playing Open and will also probably be one of the few women playing. Look for long dark hair, and it's probably me

 

[silvereagle2150]

I use acetone because it's what I started doing dyes with. You could put it in something else and dilute it. But I know for a fact that when I put some rit crystals in some acetone and brush it into a disc, I get the exact texture I'm looking for. It's not great for some things, but when I wanna brush on some colors in small spots it's what I do.

Do the crystals dissolve? If not, do you try and only use the dyed water, or do you scoop crystals too? (I know it's a nit-picky question )

 

[AciDBatH666]

I use acetone because it's what I started doing dyes with. You could put it in something else and dilute it. But I know for a fact that when I put some rit crystals in some acetone and brush it into a disc, I get the exact texture I'm looking for. It's not great for some things, but when I wanna brush on some colors in small spots it's what I do.

Do the crystals dissolve? If not, do you try and only use the dyed water, or do you scoop crystals too? (I know it's a nit-picky question )

I get it all on the disc. Crystals and all. Some of it dissolves, some doesnt. When I do this kind of brush on technique (Not very often, I've done about 200 dyes and only 4-5 have been brush on), i just put a little bit of rit in a small container, and put a small amount of acetone in it. The acetone will eventually evaporate, so technically you could just keep putting acetone in your container each time you'd want to use that color.
It's not going to give you a solid color tho. You'd have to make a lot of passes to stain your dye on to make it look smooth. But for small things it's just my preferred technique. It's not for everyone. But I'm experienced with how fast it works, and what mistakes not to make. It's a trial and error thing.

 

[ChUcKyZ]

I use acetone because it's what I started doing dyes with. You could put it in something else and dilute it. But I know for a fact that when I put some rit crystals in some acetone and brush it into a disc, I get the exact texture I'm looking for. It's not great for some things, but when I wanna brush on some colors in small spots it's what I do.

Do the crystals dissolve? If not, do you try and only use the dyed water, or do you scoop crystals too? (I know it's a nit-picky question )

Not a nit-picky question at all. I noticed that the acetone doesn't dissolve the RIT salt too well (it really is just table salt in there, RIT doesn't use anything fancy for their mordant). I don't like these messing up my painted dyes, so I decant them off. Mixing your RIT and acetone in a tall, skinny something (like a test tube or whatever) makes it easy to pour off the good bits into a container and discard the rest.

Once I was mixing up liter jars of every color of the rainbow dissolved in acetone. I had a pan of water boiling on the stove and would dip each jar in the boiling water for a few minutes. This dissolved all the extra salt, and it never crystallized back out of solution after cooling. Then some B-hole started internet-yelling at me that heating acetone is more dangerous than uranium fission, so I stopped recommending it to people.

Acid mentioned mixing RIT in dish soap, but I think he really meant laundry soap. I tried dish soap, and it worked, but only after a couple of days once the foam died down. Give it a shot, there's all sorts of possibilities there.

I have some good ideas for multi-color dyes that allow you to dip in any color order, but I have been too distracted by school and Fable II to really test them out.

Welcome to DGR, yo. I wish my local scene had more DGFlyGirls.

 

[silvereagle2150]

I have some good ideas for multi-color dyes that allow you to dip in any color order, but I have been too distracted by school and Fable II to really test them out.

Welcome to DGR, yo. I wish my local scene had more DGFlyGirls.

Great advice, thanks! I bought a couple used white discs yesterday at the shop that supplies me, so I'm going to be testing out multiple colors over the next couple days and probably then donate them to one of the local elementary schools.

My dyes are being unveiled at a tournament this weekend even though people are already asking me for them, so I would like to get some technique tried out before I start getting hit up for orders.

I know what you mean about getting distracted! I work full-time (which means I get to print designs all day) and like to golf in the afternoons, so the only time that I get some solid hours to really delve into this is on rainy weekends! (Rock Band is another big distraction for me, too)

I know that some people are very proprietary about their methods - a couple of the accomplished fly dyers for example - but if you ever get the time to test out some of those dipping methods and feel generous enough to share what you've learned, I would definitely be interested to know more.

Has anyone actually tested the effectiveness of the vinyl dye that is used for detailing auto plastic and electronics plastic? It's not a paint per se, which I know is not PDGA approved, but it's like an aerosoled dye - common brands are Duplicolor, Magix, Plastikote, or SEM?

Our local scene is lacking in women as well, and (being young and single) it's kind of surprising to me. What woman DOESN'T want to play a sport that's 92% male? Then again, it's for that reason that I do not just introduce ANY woman to the sport.... I actually play. I'm not just a beer and disc caddy

 

[AciDBatH666]

Yeah there's lots of different ways to go about multi colored dyes. We all have our own preferences and unique styles that work for us. Chuck has some really sick looking colored jobs that's he's got in his portfolio. I dabble in it a bit, but try to stray away if possible.

My dyes are being unveiled at a tournament this weekend even though people are already asking me for them, so I would like to get some technique tried out before I start getting hit up for orders.

Technique and process are definitely important. You need to have your dye process down to a science and have experience with not only what works, but what wont work and why it wont. You're gonna find out things by trial and error. My latest "wtf moment" was figuring out that the newest runs of Champion have difficulty dying the outer wing of the plastic.

I do dyes for $$$, but it's not like I'm making a killing off it. There's threads here on DGR explaining how there just isn't a ton of money to be made from it. You need a connection with a good hook up on plastic, cheap prices, and a way to be SUPER EFFICIENT with getting dyes done. Otherwise you're spending a few hours on a disc for a measly 7 bucks profit.
THe plotter helps a ton, but you'll honestly make more money with doing vinyl on a plotter than with dyes.
The amount of effort and time to dye a disc will rarely ever become worth more than what people will pay. Just my experience with it. I still enjoy doing the work, but I donate way more dyes than I sell. Even with the cheapest prices on the market and FREE shipping, not a lot of ppl are willing to pay for it.

(Rock Band is another big distraction for me, too)

Try 5 years on and off of Warcraft lol. And the fact that I'm drafting on a computer full time on TOP of WoW just adds to the carpal tunnel excitement.

I know that some people are very proprietary about their methods - a couple of the accomplished fly dyers for example - but if you ever get the time to test out some of those dipping methods and feel generous enough to share what you've learned, I would definitely be interested to know more.

You'll prolly find the widest array of information here on DGR. ChUcK's actually started a Dye FAQ thread here that we're trying to get tons of info into. Ive been meaning to post more stuff in it but been busy, and I know he's been MEGA busy with school.

Has anyone actually tested the effectiveness of the vinyl dye that is used for detailing auto plastic and electronics plastic? It's not a paint per se, which I know is not PDGA approved, but it's like an aerosoled dye - common brands are Duplicolor, Magix, Plastikote, or SEM?

Someone's actually posted it on the forums, but I haven't been able to find it. I'd say do a search for it here, but our search function on DGR's been broken for a good while. If I can get my hands on some I'm willing to buy it and test it out. I'm really interested in seeing if white would work, but I'm not too confident in it. Someone here used white leather dye once, and said it faded pretty fast.
I did some research a while back and read that white was pretty much impossible to dye or impregnate into materials.

Our local scene is lacking in women as well, and (being young and single) it's kind of surprising to me. What woman DOESN'T want to play a sport that's 92% male? Then again, it's for that reason that I do not just introduce ANY woman to the sport.... I actually play. I'm not just a beer and disc caddy

This has recently been discussed too here on DGR. A lot of women get discouraged with such a male dominated sport. If they'd play in tourneys and see that "MOST" of the community is positive about wanting them to come out and get into the sport they prolly wouldn't be so discouraged. Most of my ex girlfriends that I've taken to play hated it. One told me I was just playing fetch with myself and a disc and it was dumb. Another was mesmerized to see me throw a disc 400 feet and wanted to play instantly.

 

[silvereagle2150]

I do dyes for $$$, but it's not like I'm making a killing off it. There's threads here on DGR explaining how there just isn't a ton of money to be made from it. You need a connection with a good hook up on plastic, cheap prices, and a way to be SUPER EFFICIENT with getting dyes done. Otherwise you're spending a few hours on a disc for a measly 7 bucks profit.

THe plotter helps a ton, but you'll honestly make more money with doing vinyl on a plotter than with dyes.

The amount of effort and time to dye a disc will rarely ever become worth more than what people will pay. Just my experience with it. I still enjoy doing the work, but I donate way more dyes than I sell. Even with the cheapest prices on the market and FREE shipping, not a lot of ppl are willing to pay for it.

I do have a connection (like I said, at the local disc golf store), and the nice thing is that, at least at first, these people are more interested in having their 'signature' (people are strange about writing names, they would rather have a weird hourglass with a line running through it to signify their nicknames), basic colors, and - most importantly for the small tournaments around here - prize discs dyed with '1st Place', etc.

As an example, when I told the groups around here that I had the ability to do more than one color and still charge less than the only dyeing business out here (not going to say the name...I don't want to downplay anyone else), they were extremely excited. So I'm not looking at incredibly complex designs, which is why I was interested in a plotter. I just need the ability to make the stencils fast, because what people want is actually fairly basic.

Once I have the ability (and by ability, I mean financially) to make my own order, the store will let me place my own bulk order through them, so at least I'll be doubling my profit margin that way....buying the discs for 8.75 (shipping included in that) and selling for $20-$25.

And more than anything, because I know I will be dyeing the discs anyway, at least I can get paid enough to cover the supplies and maybe even a portion of my time. However, my ultimate goal for making a name with my 'disc dyeing' company, is because I want to open a true, dedicated, disc golf store in this area. They're building two more courses in the next two years, so between the Norman area and the Oklahoma City area, there will be nearly 10 courses. It's going to popularize the game, and you'd think there was a dedicated STORE that sold Keene shoes, Underarmor, Fade/Innova/Revolution bags, and baskets in addition to discs, but there isn't. So the company recognition is the key factor here.

This has recently been discussed too here on DGR. A lot of women get discouraged with such a male dominated sport. If they'd play in tourneys and see that "MOST" of the community is positive about wanting them to come out and get into the sport they prolly wouldn't be so discouraged. Most of my ex girlfriends that I've taken to play hated it. One told me I was just playing fetch with myself and a disc and it was dumb. Another was mesmerized to see me throw a disc 400 feet and wanted to play instantly.

The only times I have been discouraged lately was when I finally realized why my midrange game was not improving at the same rate as my drives or putting. I play with a lot of very accomplished male golfers - usually in dubs rounds. So, I drive, they drive, and we inevitably end up taking their lie instead of mine. Then, they let me putt it out. I rarely[\b] get a chance to throw a shot between 70-120 feet.

Every now and then, someone will make a crack about throwing from the ladies' tee, which I (sometimes not so gently) remind them that an appropriate term would be 'am pad' or something similar.

But I don't begrudge anyone saying 'you throw like a girl'. I may not be able to drive 400', but if you ask me to nail a pine cone hanging off a limb at 50 feet a way, I'd take you up on that bet. When someone says they throw like a girl, I take that to mean they are more accurate than powerful.

That being said, I do not appreciate women who come out to the course and just stand around. I understand that their significant other is out there, but if you're desperate enough to come out and join them on the course in the first place, why not pick up a disc (without complaint or degrading remarks) and give it a good ol' fashioned try....and for more than just 15 minutes one afternoon?

And from the single perspective, what girl doesn't want to be surrounded by dozens of outdoorsy guys with little competition? Maybe I'm just a go-getter that way, but I can't pass up that opportunity....

How many women play in your area? There are only 12 or 13 who play consistently in Oklahoma, and I'm one of the only ones in the Norman area that plays daily anymore and enters everything.

 

[riverboy1]

I do dyes for $$$, but it's not like I'm making a killing off it. There's threads here on DGR explaining how there just isn't a ton of money to be made from it. You need a connection with a good hook up on plastic, cheap prices, and a way to be SUPER EFFICIENT with getting dyes done. Otherwise you're spending a few hours on a disc for a measly 7 bucks profit.

THe plotter helps a ton, but you'll honestly make more money with doing vinyl on a plotter than with dyes.

The amount of effort and time to dye a disc will rarely ever become worth more than what people will pay. Just my experience with it. I still enjoy doing the work, but I donate way more dyes than I sell. Even with the cheapest prices on the market and FREE shipping, not a lot of ppl are willing to pay for it.

I do have a connection (like I said, at the local disc golf store), and the nice thing is that, at least at first, these people are more interested in having their 'signature' (people are strange about writing names, they would rather have a weird hourglass with a line running through it to signify their nicknames), basic colors, and - most importantly for the small tournaments around here - prize discs dyed with '1st Place', etc.

As an example, when I told the groups around here that I had the ability to do more than one color and still charge less than the only dyeing business out here (not going to say the name...I don't want to downplay anyone else), they were extremely excited. So I'm not looking at incredibly complex designs, which is why I was interested in a plotter. I just need the ability to make the stencils fast, because what people want is actually fairly basic.

Once I have the ability (and by ability, I mean financially) to make my own order, the store will let me place my own bulk order through them, so at least I'll be doubling my profit margin that way....buying the discs for 8.75 (shipping included in that) and selling for $20-$25.

And more than anything, because I know I will be dyeing the discs anyway, at least I can get paid enough to cover the supplies and maybe even a portion of my time. However, my ultimate goal for making a name with my 'disc dyeing' company, is because I want to open a true, dedicated, disc golf store in this area. They're building two more courses in the next two years, so between the Norman area and the Oklahoma City area, there will be nearly 10 courses. It's going to popularize the game, and you'd think there was a dedicated STORE that sold Keene shoes, Underarmor, Fade/Innova/Revolution bags, and baskets in addition to discs, but there isn't. So the company recognition is the key factor here.

This has recently been discussed too here on DGR. A lot of women get discouraged with such a male dominated sport. If they'd play in tourneys and see that "MOST" of the community is positive about wanting them to come out and get into the sport they prolly wouldn't be so discouraged. Most of my ex girlfriends that I've taken to play hated it. One told me I was just playing fetch with myself and a disc and it was dumb. Another was mesmerized to see me throw a disc 400 feet and wanted to play instantly.

The only times I have been discouraged lately was when I finally realized why my midrange game was not improving at the same rate as my drives or putting. I play with a lot of very accomplished male golfers - usually in dubs rounds. So, I drive, they drive, and we inevitably end up taking their lie instead of mine. Then, they let me putt it out. I rarely[\b] get a chance to throw a shot between 70-120 feet.

Every now and then, someone will make a crack about throwing from the ladies' tee, which I (sometimes not so gently) remind them that an appropriate term would be 'am pad' or something similar.

But I don't begrudge anyone saying 'you throw like a girl'. I may not be able to drive 400', but if you ask me to nail a pine cone hanging off a limb at 50 feet a way, I'd take you up on that bet. When someone says they throw like a girl, I take that to mean they are more accurate than powerful.

That being said, I do not appreciate women who come out to the course and just stand around. I understand that their significant other is out there, but if you're desperate enough to come out and join them on the course in the first place, why not pick up a disc (without complaint or degrading remarks) and give it a good ol' fashioned try....and for more than just 15 minutes one afternoon?

And from the single perspective, what girl doesn't want to be surrounded by dozens of outdoorsy guys with little competition? Maybe I'm just a go-getter that way, but I can't pass up that opportunity....

How many women play in your area? There are only 12 or 13 who play consistently in Oklahoma, and I'm one of the only ones in the Norman area that plays daily anymore and enters everything.

Well said. To answer your last question I can only think of two serious players in my town. I would consider your area lucky. :lol: