United States disc golf championships

[oldmandiscer]

USDGC has been the most unwatchable disc golf tournament, since it's inception. The course is awful and the ropes/stakes make it very difficult to watch, IMO. This have become a completely irrelevant event, paywall simply ensure this.

Are you kidding me? That clown show is exactly what you like. You are completely opposed to natural golf with properly sized targets.

Don't even think about trying to join my side at this point. You are for triple mandos, poop sticks everywhere, raised baskets and miles of rope.

That is your jam, just embrace it.

 

[tomte]

I wouldn't mind to pay to watch DG, but then I also expect ONE place where I can choose from all the tournaments any time I want, if I paid once, I can watch what I paid for as many times as I want.

Obviously the price should be reasonable. Netflix costs $10/month, so if we compare choice and amount of content I guess $1/month would be already high priced for the amount of content available. I guess this would mean having a streaming platform for discgolf would be an economical disaster?

 

[Ryan P.]

I wouldn't mind to pay to watch DG, but then I also expect ONE place where I can choose from all the tournaments any time I want, if I paid once, I can watch what I paid for as many times as I want.

Obviously the price should be reasonable. Netflix costs $10/month, so if we compare choice and amount of content I guess $1/month would be already high priced for the amount of content available. I guess this would mean having a streaming platform for discgolf would be an economical disaster?

Amount of content means nothing to most people. Amount of content you care to watch is what matters. I have DGN and watch about 80% of the rounds on there. I have amazon prime and I've watched 2 movies on it this year. DGN is worth way more to me (I'd drop amazon prime in a heartbeat if it didn't mean free shipping).

 

[elmexdela]

Should have made it a double mando with the outermost "sticks".

thats what i think too

will we see most pros teeing off from back of box

 

[The Shide]

I like hole #17. Hands down one of the most exciting holes to watch during the season that is under 300 feet. So much is riding on that one, seemingly easy shot. And yet it produces such drama every year. For me, worth the $25.

 

[elmexdela]

 

[brutalbrutus]

Can't wait to see Uli talk **** about this hole during Mic'd Up Practice Round...




Oh wait, i forgot... USDGC won't have the most watched Postpro crew working their event.:|

 

[DanJon]

Are you kidding me? That clown show is exactly what you like. You are completely opposed to natural golf with properly sized targets.

Don't even think about trying to join my side at this point. You are for triple mandos, poop sticks everywhere, raised baskets and miles of rope.

That is your jam, just embrace it.

Holy Strawman.

You need smaller logical fallacies.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Are you kidding me? That clown show is exactly what you like. You are completely opposed to natural golf with properly sized targets.

Don't even think about trying to join my side at this point. You are for triple mandos, poop sticks everywhere, raised baskets and miles of rope.

That is your jam, just embrace it.

The only way OldMD can defend his lazy non-solution: pretending everyone else is in favor of ridiculous things that nobody is out here defending.

 

[Darkgreen]

I would much rather watch a bad tree kick (if the fairway is actually fair) than have OB. With a tree kick the player has the opportunity to scramble and save, and that to me is much more compelling golf. With OB that stroke is gone, and in some cases the player is also still penalized distance. It is too much.

I don't love the course, but I think there are a lot of really important/critical parts of this course from a course design perspective.

• Ropes. I've never heard someone say they like the ropes the ropes, but ropes have made their way onto many other courses. USDGC popularized the use of ropes. Their main benefit is a simple way of making a course harder (which can be important when pros come to visit). Ropes are also very fair; generally much fairer than trees. I'm sure you've had a bad shot hit a tree and kick back out into the fairway; shots that go into OB rope very rarely get an odd bounce back into the fairway (exception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzZ53Vx8nM). I think this is made even better by the combined use of hazard and OB areas. Many would respond by saying that water is a much more aesthetically pleasing way of doing this. That's true, but it doesn't offer ...
  
• Flexibility. The USDGC (because of the ropes and other man-made obstacles) has stayed relevant and competitive for 20+ years, despite pros being able to throw 100ish feet further than they did 20 years ago. They also can improve the course from year to year. Trying to improve the course will inevitably lead to bad ideas (the dock on hole 5 made the hole worse according to most), but also leads to good ideas. IMO, one of the best ideas they've had is ...
  
• Strategy. There are multiple schools of hole design, one of which is a strategic hole. Strategic holes offer different ways to play the hole according to one's skill level (or, less politely stated, according to the size of a player's arms and heuvos). Hole 17 has three distinct landing zones off the tee, despite it being a par 3. You can try and park it (which almost everyone does), go for the safe drive off to the right (which a few do), or accept your fate and throw an 80' upshot (which I've seen no pros do but many smart ams do). Not all the holes have this, but most do. There are other courses that have done it much better, but the USDGC was able to jump-start this because of its ...
  
• Visibility. I mean this in two senses: in-person and on video/worldwide knowledge. For "in-person", while you're on the course its easy to see holes and shots. You know where the disc should go and where it shouldn't. Then, when the shot is thrown, you know where it went. Therefore, not only does it have interesting design features, but you can also see them, even on video. The USDGC is one of the most well-known events in the world (2nd being worlds in my estimation). So everyone sees and discusses these course changes from year to year. We've been able to see a course that's under development for 20+ years. That's a great way to help others learn to design.

 

[Flick Maniac]

but oooooh do you remember the time they had stroke & distance?? what year was that? that was punitive and FUN! I gotta look it up

 

[Dcinmd]

I would much rather watch a bad tree kick (if the fairway is actually fair) than have OB. With a tree kick the player has the opportunity to scramble and save, and that to me is much more compelling golf. With OB that stroke is gone, and in some cases the player is also still penalized distance. It is too much.

Much easier to see a tree than some arbitrary rope on the ground 300+ feet away.

 

[Ryan P.]

After thinking about it more, I don't know what they're trying to do on hole 9. Specifically, ...

If they wanted pros to throw above, then why not have a fairer way of punishing bad shots? If I go over, I'm aiming above and between 2 poles so it's going to take a big miss to hit anything.

If they wanted people to go around (which they clearly do for layups because that's the layup zone), then why not make the poles taller, or if they wanted people to be go over or around, then add more poles in the middle so there's little chance to get lucky.

If they want people to go between the poles, then they are spaced too far apart to punish bad shots. Someone could easily rip a bad shot and get lucky easily.

If they wanted to leave all 3 options, then in my mind they failed at all 3. Get one of those zuca cart signs and put it 30 feet off the tee instead of 5ft off the tee and add the poles to the sides. Bad shots will hit the sides. That's not a great solution either, but I think you get my drift.

 

[Ryan P.]

I would much rather watch a bad tree kick (if the fairway is actually fair) than have OB. With a tree kick the player has the opportunity to scramble and save, and that to me is much more compelling golf. With OB that stroke is gone, and in some cases the player is also still penalized distance. It is too much.

I fully agree with this. It's one of the drawbacks I see with OB (the inability to recover). Recovery shots are more enjoyable to watch and (try) to throw. Never having to throw a recovery shot leads to much less enjoyable rounds. I was highlighting the positives I see with Winthrop Gold because everyone is knocking it, and there are some things it does really well.

Another thing I thought about for visibility was how there's a viewing area that allows you to see many different holes at once (basically anywhere around the clubhouse, especially between hole 1's basket and 18's tee).

 

[txmxer]

I fully agree with this. It's one of the drawbacks I see with OB (the inability to recover). Recovery shots are more enjoyable to watch and (try) to throw. Never having to throw a recovery shot leads to much less enjoyable rounds. I was highlighting the positives I see with Winthrop Gold because everyone is knocking it, and there are some things it does really well.

Another thing I thought about for visibility was how there's a viewing area that allows you to see many different holes at once (basically anywhere around the clubhouse, especially between hole 1's basket and 18's tee).

I appreciate you made those points. Now stop that and let us get back to hating on it!

 

[EarthRocker]

I probably won't watch it, but not for any spiteful reasons. I simply prefer to play than to watch.

And let me tell you, two Sundays ago, we went out and played it with the ropes. (No haybales...)

The thing that gets me, and that keeps me from thinking I could ever compete in Open, is the friggin' length. It's easy enough to avoid OB if you have any control whatsoever - and if you know where it is.

And I've given up trying to clear the water in most places, so no big whoop there.

It just takes so many sort of heroic, givin'-it-all-she's-GOT-Cap'n kind of throws, it gets tiring. And boring. As a player.

So then I think of watching these young dudes just launching huge drives, or using rollers, and I just...shut down. No thanks.

However! When I think back to not long ago, when there was zero DG coverage to be had, I am very thankful that we have all these choices. Watch or don't, compete or don't. There are no wrong answers here. What do YOU want out of the entire DG experience? Whatever that is, you pretty much have it...

With a side of mozzarella sticks, even.

 

[Ryan P.]

I appreciate you made those points. Now stop that and let us get back to hating on it!

haha great. I'll join in

• Lack of recovery shots. This has been talked about, but only a handful of holes have a place for recovery shots. Most of the time, if you throw a bad shot, it's followed up by a wide open shot. Recovery shots force you to shape a shot in an odd way, hit a gap, etc. This the general complaint with more open courses (i.e., "they just throw hyzers all day").
  
• Monstrosity. This is similar to the complaint that most people have about the course being "artificial". I think it's more helpful to use the word monstrous (or synonyms) because that's really the issue. Discs and baskets are artificial, yet we have no problem with them. The issue is that people have expectations of what a DG course should look like, and USDGC doesn't meet those expectations in two regards.
  
  First, the OB rope is stuff that some people see as a monstrous imposition on nature. They want to be in nature, apart from man-made objects (well, aside from a disc and basket).
  
  Second, there are always a few holes that seem monstrous in their design. They don't make sense to our brains because they don't conform to the expected norms of what a hole should be. The sticks on 9 are an example of this for multiple reasons. First, the obstacles are unlike anything else we see on a course. Second, they don't make a lot of sense to someone on the tee. Are you supposed to go around, over, or through? The sharp turn of hole 4 fits this (anyone recall the dislike for the 90+ degree turns at Northwoods Black?). The bamboo gate fits this less because it mimics a common obstacle in its shape.
  
  Third, related to hole design, OB sometimes punishes unfairly (and is therefore "monstrous"). I'll take hole 6 for example. If someone chucks their disc straight left into the pond, or if someone takes an awkward skip off the grass near the basket and kicks long on the land, those shots have the same exact result: throwing 3 from the drop zone. While both should be punished, one was much better than the other, and should be punished less. Water and especially OB have to be handled carefully in designing holes since they are so punishing. Making sure to have fairer punishments is a good way to avoid frustrating players unfairly. WIth that said, I like what they've done with hole 17's changes in this regard, and I think it's much fairer. Hazard areas are a good way to do this too (see hole 11).

 

[ru4por]

Lol.......ok, sure. Gee, too bad I will be in Northern Michigan, playing a ton of disc golf, viewing wildlife and gazing at the spectacle of autumn splendor, that the Mitten has to offer this time of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF6vmlcEzlE

 

[nothinbuttree]

Lol.......ok, sure. Gee, too bad I will be in Northern Michigan, playing a ton of disc golf, viewing wildlife and gazing at the spectacle of autumn splendor, that the Mitten has to offer this time of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF6vmlcEzlE

Go ahead, rub it in. I had a N.MI trip planned for this month, had to put it off til maybe next year. Can you do a live GoPro for me?

 

[ru4por]

Go ahead, rub it in. I had a N.MI trip planned for this month, had to put it off til maybe next year. Can you do a live GoPro for me?

Man, I'm sorry. I am super COVID cautious and have not gone on any kind of vacation since the start of the pandemic. I simply am not comfortable going to a hotel, flying, eating inside a restaurant yet. That left camping, which is cool, but taking my wife and 6 month old puppy is a bit much.

I got lucky, in that Future Primitive and Nick Pacific, from on here, gave me a shout. They had rented a house and had a third bed. Both great guys and COVID cautious as well. It was almost pure luck. Kismet, if you will.

I am not a GoPro type guy, but I will tell you what. After one of the rounds, as I pull out my old man lawn chair, taking in the colors.....I will have an Oberon for you man. :hfive:

Next year for ya, hopefully. We won't use up all the fun.