JR said:
Disc golf has the roots in hippies and they aren't so interested in rules, more on fun and karmic law and to an extent it has carried over.
In the end, that may be the real root of it all for all I know. Golf and disc golf kind of seem to have started from opposite ends of the social spectrums.
So again, why write rules that aren't enforceable? If discs are made illegal by doing some things but nobody cares because boiling a disc to change its dome doesn't do anything, why aren't the rules written to allow such modifications?
It creates weird situations. Someone can extra hot stamp dents into their discs, dump boiling water in them to change the dome height, sand away a bit of the edge, but they can't put a sticker with their name on the underside of the flight plate because it's a "detectable thickness"?
And again, the whole 2013 rule throws a wrench into things. Maybe nobody will question the legality because they know their whole bag would be questioned out of retaliation, or maybe everyone will pretend that rule doesn't exist either... but why write that rule? (It's a bad rule IMO).
chainsmoker said:
Am I really supposed to believe that someone just started in this sport a few months ago and dislikes it so much that they make multiple JR length posts a day about what's wrong with the sport. Has there even been a recomendation given on how all of these rules attrocities could be remedied?
I don't dislike the sport of disc golf. I like it quite a bit. I've met with the local townships to propose the installation of disc golf courses, I've begun fundraising, have traveled, am going to play in 90 minutes today, etc.
I'm simply trying to wrap my head around why some rules exist at all if they're not going to be enforced. I'm asking for "remedies" and instead of contributing, you just post this. Real helpful.
chainsmoker said:
Here is some advice, if you just started playing disc golf and enjoy disc golf go out and PLAY disc golf. Learn the sport, play tournaments, help TDs run tournaments, contact the pdga about becoming a rules official if you want. You won't know anything about equipment until you really learn how to make discs fly, manipulate their flight, and see discs change as they age. This might sound silly to you, but many disc golfers have a relationship with their equipment that is unlike any other sport, and if the rules took that away it would be removing a major part of the sport.
I do wish you'd read what I have written. I think you could contribute to the thread. As I've said a few times, if people routinely ignore certain rules, why not just remove the rules or re-write them?
In golf, these rules would be enforced and people caught breaking them would be labeled cheaters. If Titleist was found to be producing golf balls out of spec, there would be a major shitstorm. There would literally be lawsuits, some of which questioned the legality of major championships and their winners. All hell would break loose.
In disc golf people would apparently mutter "meh" and go on. That doesn't make one right or wrong (again a lot more money in golf), just different, and I'm trying to wrap my head around why disc golf has rules it can't enforce. I'd just change them.
I don't know how. Golf rules regarding:
a) the ball's distance
b) the ball's weight
c) the ball's size
d) the ball's uniformity (it can't fly differently when oriented differently)
e) the club's length
f) the clubhead size
g) how springy the clubface can be
Balls are round. You can't make them
It seems to me that some of the rules on discs already limit their performance. I don't know that someone, under the current rules, can make a disc that goes 20% farther just by design.
Golf also has a rule that the clubhead must be "plain in shape" and then there are some rules after that, like "no holes through the clubface" and so on. Perhaps disc golf should allow any modifications that they want because they can't truly measure the "original flight characteristics." Put some guidelines in place like that the disc must remain round (no notches in the outer edge to grab chains better), you cant' have holes, you can't carve anything or append anything that modifies the overall dimensions (diameter, height) of the disc. That would legalize taped-on lights for glow rounds, putting a sticker under the flight plate with your name on it, and other things people seem to like to do.
But... technically I guess changing the dome height with boiling water would still be out, so maybe that won't work either.
chainsmoker said:
There is no magic bullet, people who have been around much longer than I can tell you that all of the disc modifications in the world are not going to make a 950 rated player any better unless those modifications were so overt that it would be silly. After you know what disc golf is all about then you can start thinking about how the sport can be improved.
Then make those actions legal. If they don't affect the play (i.e. someone could just buy a different disc that got those qualities, or through play arrive at a disc that had those qualities, they're just speeding the process), why is it technically illegal? Remove that rule. Legalize widely accepted actions.
Varsi said:
I wonder if some of you even read his posts. Mostly iacas has been talking about the "Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal." and I agree that can be interpreted in ways that would make many things we are used to be doing to discs illegal. This could be a problem if they really add a rule that anyone can doubt if someones disc is illegal and it can't be used until inspected.
Yes, that's the crux of it. The Rules of Disc Golf are making the actions of many illegal if you read the rules strictly. I bolded the critical parts. The Rules make virtually everyone a cheater and, because nobody can really know what the "original flight characteristics" of any one particular disc were, they're unenforceable.
The solution may be to simply remove 'em. Or modify them to allow for the currently illegal "disc modifications."
Varsi said:
I haven't noticed him disliking the sport tho. I doubt anyone would have this much conversation over something they hated.
Yeah, definitely don't hate the sport. Quite the opposite.
P.S. I type over 100 WPM and work for myself, so I've got a lot of free time when I choose to have it. I can type things up while software compiles in the background, etc. That goes to explain the length of posts. I can type a lot while waiting for five minutes for a compile.