Weekly dubs with diverse abilities

[kenjiac]

We have a pretty successful league near here that's billed as Pro-Am random doubles. The better players (Pros) go into one group and the others (Ams) into another. Then the pairing is done matching (using playing cards) one player from the Pro group with one from the Am group.

All of the better players who attend know that they'll be matched with someone weaker -- sometimes much weaker, but they don't seem to mind. And all of the pros that I've been paired with have been gracious, helpful, and encouraging as I developed my game from the ground up. (The first year, I was laying up 15 foot putts.) I've never felt any pressure because I'm a weaker player and from time-to-time, I get the joy of making an approach shot or putt that helps the team.

In your A/B dubs league what did they do when it wasn't even? Too many A's would create a power team. Too many B's might make a team with absolutely no chance to cash. Would they adjust the A/B split line? If so how did the players around the line take being in different pools?

 

[tonyroberts]

In your A/B dubs league what did they do when it wasn't even? Too many A's would create a power team. Too many B's might make a team with absolutely no chance to cash. Would they adjust the A/B split line? If so how did the players around the line take being in different pools?

I recall this happening once with too many B players. I was paired with another B player. We didn't have much chance, but we played for fun. We played for aces whenever possible in hopes of hitting the ace pool.

In general, though, our league director knew the players well enough that he could line things up pretty well.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

My prick side would recommend that you respond to complaints with "you appear to be struggling with the word random."

You have to decide if you are going to stick to random or modify the random in some way. No solution is perfect. I play in a weekly triples event with players self-ranking from 1 (beginner) to 5. Each week a minimum team number is established using a formula I care not to understand. If it's 7, the 4-2-1 team is still more likely to win than a 2-2-3 three team, but a lot might come down to how the 2s play or if the 4 and 3 have an off day. Part of the fun is figuring out how to max utilize the talent/skills within the three players on the team.

No one seems to complain, though some teams quickly figure out they better have a reason for playing that week other than cashing.

 

[JC17393]

In your A/B dubs league what did they do when it wasn't even? Too many A's would create a power team. Too many B's might make a team with absolutely no chance to cash. Would they adjust the A/B split line? If so how did the players around the line take being in different pools?

I think the key is to have a fluid defining line between A and B. It shouldn't really be a fixed point like a certain rating or rating range, because that just invites imbalance. Generally speaking, you can't really determine who's an A and who's a B until everyone is signed up. If you get 24 players, you rank them as best you can then draw the line between player 12 and 13.

Absent some sort of objective ranking system like ratings or a handicap, the best thing to do is to put all the clear As on one side, all the clear Bs on the other, then anyone left in the middle you just randomly assign to one side or the other. If you have a bunch of regular attendees who fit that middle category, maybe you allow them to alternate which side they're assigned to each week.

 

[F. Howl]

In your A/B dubs league what did they do when it wasn't even? Too many A's would create a power team. Too many B's might make a team with absolutely no chance to cash. Would they adjust the A/B split line? If so how did the players around the line take being in different pools?

-2 for B/B, and+2 for A/A.

 

[kenjiac]

I think the key is to have a fluid defining line between A and B. It shouldn't really be a fixed point like a certain rating or rating range, because that just invites imbalance. Generally speaking, you can't really determine who's an A and who's a B until everyone is signed up. If you get 24 players, you rank them as best you can then draw the line between player 12 and 13.

Absent some sort of objective ranking system like ratings or a handicap, the best thing to do is to put all the clear As on one side, all the clear Bs on the other, then anyone left in the middle you just randomly assign to one side or the other. If you have a bunch of regular attendees who fit that middle category, maybe you allow them to alternate which side they're assigned to each week.

This is exactly why i advocate for a/b/c dubs. Players in the middle being a "a" player one week and a "b" player the following tend to whine when they are in the "a" pool. With the a/b/c pooling there is no need to have even numbers or to have someone be switching pools every week. Makes for more happier player IMHO.

 

[roblee]

We've been doing A/B doubles (we call it up/down. we know who the up's are) in Lubbock,TX for 25+ years. Very competitive but the 2 primary objectives are socializing and fundraising. $6 entry; 1 to progressive ace pot, 1 to club, 4 to payout. Payout top 1/3 with last cash getting their money back. We make $2,000 each year that goes to player value at our annual tournament. Set your objectives, keep it simple, and include some fun. Account for every nickel. Running these things are plenty of work and it can seem thankless at times so it's great you are doing this for your club.

 

[Guurn]

I've always found that the success mixed doubles depends a largely on the type of course played. Mostly depending on distance. If the course you are setting it up on is a shorter course with chances at aces for even under 900 players then you will be good. It does help to have someone that can separate better players from the less skilled ones (not everyone has a PDGA rating) and do pools.

If it really in intended to be mostly for fun then set up time matters quite a lot and looking up every players rating will matter. In your case I think I'd just do the matching card thing and if you don't know the player look up their rating to decide pools. That works pretty quickly. If it gets busy I'd make cheater cards for the regulars to get the pools started quickly and have new people fill one out.

 

[PBokor]

I've always found that the success mixed doubles depends a largely on the type of course played. Mostly depending on distance. If the course you are setting it up on is a shorter course with chances at aces for even under 900 players then you will be good. It does help to have someone that can separate better players from the less skilled ones (not everyone has a PDGA rating) and do pools.

New course, opened June 2017, pure rec from the ground up. Built with a County Kid's grant (20K). Short and technical. 80% are regs, easy to quantify. TQ.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=9027

If it really in intended to be mostly for fun then set up time matters quite a lot and looking up every players rating will matter. In your case I think I'd just do the matching card thing and if you don't know the player look up their rating to decide pools. That works pretty quickly. If it gets busy I'd make cheater cards for the regulars to get the pools started quickly and have new people fill one out.[/QUOTE]

I'm onboard, but this seems like too much work. I plan to let players self identify until it skews the stats...

 

[tom12003]

We had one doubles league that for a while had a no-super team rule in place. Players about a certain rating (I think we had 935-950 as the line but I really don't recall) drew first and were guaranteed not to have each other as partners. After that it was completely random.

The random dubs I've been running for 4+ years are almost totally random on a short technical course and most of the players are about 920 rated (spread from mid 800s to 970s). Every so often, a few of the top touring pros show up and they volunteer not to play together--the $$ is too small (except the ace pot) to worry about the payout to be their normal super competitive selves; they play for the practice, fun, and teaching others. No complaints.

 

[rj29274]

A and B pool