Weight Shift From Behind You

[banzai7]

As many of you will know, Sidewinder22 likes to point people to some of Shawn Clement's videos. This video is great with helping folks understand how the weight shift happens at the top of the backwing. (If you haven't seen it, you should watch it.)



Anyway, I was reading through the comments on the forum association with Shawn Clement's website and I found this gem from a poster there that was so helpful I thought I'd share it:

"Lets start with weight shifting in front of you. Meaning when you turn into the back swing on the rear leg you build up momentum pressure into the ground from your swing. If you then use that pressure and leverage to send it back to the ball you have not given your body a place to put all that momentum pressure after the ball is struck. You will lose your balance. Or bail out and lose a lot of that pressure leverage at the ball. You know the results.

Weight shifting behind you means you have giving that momentum pressure a parking spot so you can then apply it to the ball. Where is that parking spot? It is behind you. IF you go to the top of your back swing and have your back to the target, behind you would be towards the target. So you let that momentum pressure you built up in the back swing to settle into your lead leg with your back to the target. Hence the behind you weight shift.

To sum it up ... When your back is towards the target settle your weight into the lead leg then start your downswing, that simple."​

(Now if only I could do it...)

 

[ash81]

This has been something I've been thinking about lately. Something else I noticed after watching sw22 posture vid was the importance of keeping the back foot straight forward. Sometimes I turn it in a little and the pressure seems to make that weight shift easy. With the foot turned out, the weight shift and pressure seems weak.

Bonzai7, do you notice how after the foot plants and the weight shifts it's like a well of power at your disposal but only around the right pec area? A moment too soon and fingers blow off the rim, a moment too late and you over open the shoulders?

Sometimes I feel my balance is off though. When I backswing and transfer weight onto the back foot, my front foot shifts out of position and coming back down on it I can feel a less stable balance and my focus goes into fighting my posture vs timing my hit.

I'd love to know if you've experienced this and how you fixed it if so.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Sometimes I feel my balance is off though. When I backswing and transfer weight onto the back foot, my front foot shifts out of position and coming back down on it I can feel a less stable balance and my focus goes into fighting my posture vs timing my hit.

I'd love to know if you've experienced this and how you fixed it if so.

You are shifting on a plane off axis to the target. As you shift back if you have weight moving to an angle not parallel to the line to your target you will feel off balance and the foot movement is the balance check. Also means getting your transfer back toward the target is going to be more difficult.

I would think the most likely scenario would be bending over at the waist or dipping your shoulder too much during the reach back and causing your center of gravity to move out toward your toes.

 

[banzai7]

Bonzai7, do you notice how after the foot plants and the weight shifts it's like a well of power at your disposal but only around the right pec area? A moment too soon and fingers blow off the rim, a moment too late and you over open the shoulders?

Sometimes I feel my balance is off though. When I backswing and transfer weight onto the back foot, my front foot shifts out of position and coming back down on it I can feel a less stable balance and my focus goes into fighting my posture vs timing my hit.

I'd love to know if you've experienced this and how you fixed it if so.

I haven't really noticed the "well of power" feeling so much. It's probably because I'm always over opening my shoulders. I can feel the snap sensation pretty regularly on my throws, but I don't get a sense that my legs are contributing all that much to it. I've just started to feel the sensation of having an axis to pull against, and that has been helpful.

I know my balance is off. In video from behind, you can see I'm planting my foot about 3 or four inches to the left. And when I turn back in the backswing it's hard to really keep my heel up during "the move". So, I end up with my weight too much on my heel, and then I shift it too far left onto my plant. On bad throws anyway, this is how it goes.

On better throws it feels more linear. But I cannot seem to get the feeling of shifting my weight directly toward the target into a closed stance... If I do manage a full weight shift while I'm closed, I've tipped my upper body too far over the top. Or I'll stay behind my plant, but then I'm shiftng the weight in front of me. This latter issue used to often cause a spin out. It doesn't any more, which is why I feel like I'm close... It seems better than it was, but still not quite there.

 

[banzai7]

I would think the most likely scenario would be bending over at the waist or dipping your shoulder too much during the reach back and causing your center of gravity to move out toward your toes.

That's interesting. The "swedish" style guys do both pretty severely, but still manage to be pretty linear in their weight shift.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

That's interesting. The "swedish" style guys do both pretty severely, but still manage to be pretty linear in their weight shift.

Its all about controlling a the center of gravity. Things can look or feel one way but there can be subtle things like how bent the knees are and hip placement that aren't as easy to pick up on and trying to replicate the look leads to missing the true mechanics.
Two throwers might look very similar, but one has a balance issue. My bet is the one who is/feels out of balance has their center of gravity moving off line.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I've just changed this image up a bit to point out the way the pressure of the feet plays into the backswing. The "pinkish" red is the hot spots of pressure of the feet, and the dark color is for no pressure. (Also the original and to some degree this image still doesn't explain how the shoulders are bracing in a concave shape, especially when you bring the off hand in tight).

This image showswhat Clement was talking about in the "winning the tug of war" - and I truly believe that there's 2 drills that can force a player to get this feeling. SW's "crush the can" is plainly visible in the toe down, then heel down...

This power is easy to lose, by the reverse pivot or "squashing the bug":



Once you seperate the hips from the upper body, you create that torque in your core that pulls the shoulders around that upright spine.

Drill 1: The best way I can explain this drill is to show this -



I was at a course near a baseball field, saw a guy hitting into a net like this fella above. BTW, no idea if he's good or bad, just needed a video showing "perpetual motion" for this drill.

Guy #1 is sitting off to the side tossing up balls to the hitter about once every 2 seconds. Batter cuts and resets. Ball up, cut, reset. Forces batter to stay inside brace. He has to dig into the plant foot instep otherwise he'll never be able to reset for the next ball.

Idea light goes off over HUB's head. What if I was to stand behind a DG "batter" and hand him putters? DG batter would have to brace against plant in order to get back to the next disc.

I know this puts strain on the knee, this is a drill. You want to do this at a slower pace than normal - but the key function is that you force your body into a position that really braces the weight hard enough to come back for the next disc.

Drill #2 -



Richard got me thinking about doing a brace that you could literally drive backwards from (STRAIGHT BACKWARDS) and load into and then straight back from. If you drive to far "tipped forward" into the brace, you won't be able to spring straight back from it. If you drive to much on the back side, it will also self correct.

I've used both of these drills with a couple guys now and have had almost immediate results.

Bracing as a topic of conversation is painfully hard to equate into actionable movement. I like drills, and I think both of these should help.

Good luck guys.

 

[banzai7]

Wow, thanks HUB. Nice post.

That pink/red diagram is super helpful. For some reason, when I'm in the backswing and trying to shift the rear hip targetward (not just internal rotation, but the "butt wipe" toward the target) I feel the pressure move from the ball of my rear foot toward the arch/heel of the rear foot. I can get pure internal rotation of the rear hip keep the pressure only on the ball, but if I try to slide my rear hip targetward, the pressure shifts and the knee extends. So I'm not sure how to physically match the motions with you diagram.

The idea for drill 2 is really cool. I just tried it and it feels like doing it some more will help cement it in my muscle memory. I know what bracing feels like now, I think I'm just not quite getting the body positions quite right going into the brace to really make much use of it.

Also: why haven't I seen any of Richard's videos before? This is the first I've come across them ... this is rhatton1, right? Nice explanation. :thmbup:

 

[sidewinder22]

That pink/red diagram is super helpful. For some reason, when I'm in the backswing and trying to shift the rear hip targetward (not just internal rotation, but the "butt wipe" toward the target) I feel the pressure move from the ball of my rear foot toward the arch/heel of the rear foot. I can get pure internal rotation of the rear hip keep the pressure only on the ball, but if I try to slide my rear hip targetward, the pressure shifts and the knee extends. So I'm not sure how to physically match the motions with you diagram.

The pressure should increase on the rear instep(not the heel) pushing everything forward, using your foot muscle/plantar flexion. Stop tilting your head over. Lead chin first ahead of the nose.

 

[PWaggoner]

Killing my data this month dgcr!

Thanks for the good read.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Am I supposed to be exploding off the rear foot like he does in the rotational drill? I feel like I have just been gliding into the brace onto my plant foot purely with the momentum of my run up.

 

[sidewinder22]

It's a bit exaggerated there, but yes...that's where the "late" acceleration starts and why 99% of everyone that does a fast run up doesn't get it or rhythm. It doesn't need to be a huge/long move, it just needs to be the correct "the move" and pivot/evert the rear foot instead of spinning out.

*Banzai - Mike is talking to you here 2 min "Reverse Pivot and Totally Cooked", he gets in your exact position, head and all, over the top*

 

[banzai7]

*Banzai - Mike is talking to you here 2 min "Reverse Pivot and Totally Cooked", he gets in your exact position, head and all, over the top*

Yup, exactly. The problem is, I don't know what to do instead! I don't know how it feels. And with that camera man interrupting him every ten seconds he never actually says...

"It's the simplest bloody thing in the world..."
I'm a college professor who teaches logic; and it's exactly the same. When you see how to prove something, it's so blindingly obvious. But when you don't see it, it seems impossible.

 

[ash81]

Yup, exactly. The problem is, I don't know what to do instead! I don't know how it feels. And with that camera man interrupting him every ten seconds he never actually says...

"It's the simplest bloody thing in the world..."
I'm a college professor who teaches logic; and it's exactly the same. When you see how to prove something, it's so blindingly obvious. But when you don't see it, it seems impossible.

This is why I bring up discussions and tend to be verbose. It's one thing to see and know. It's another to do, achieve, and feel. I'm pretty analytical and focused, but seeing how easy it looks, vs making it happen correctly can take time.

I'm glad to know that back leg push with the disc at the pec is correct. I've been doing that with good results. A few guys on my card and one's girlfriend kept talking about it this weekend. They said it was neat to see the slow smooth guide and then the energy pop with the disc just rocketing towards the basket. I actually outdrove both of my cards (my first tourny) several times doing just standstills and they all mostly did run ups.

I must take a moment to thank the experts here.

There's still much work to be done though.

 

[Tex1503]

 

[sidewinder22]

Walking and swinging from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Oylh4t8G8#t=5m

Rear leg counters from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s

 

[RFrance]

This looks like a good drill to get the feel for the weight shift before the top of the back swing. A lot of discussion about where the top of the back swing is and how early comparing Pro vs Am (particularly good between 3:00 to 4:00 minutes) but the Drill starts here https://youtu.be/ypfx-L8qz08?t=611.

 

[sidewinder22]

GG talking about the shift from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So9V-LZ_xmI#t=2m48s

 

[lee76007]

Walking and swinging from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Oylh4t8G8#t=5m

Rear leg counters from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s

In that top video "plant swing, plant swing........". That was drilled in my head when I played ball golf by a friend who was a pro, something he had me work on, when we were on the range.
When I'm having a good day on the Disc Course its likely because of "plant swing, plant swing....". The shifting of weight, follow thru all come into place. When I'm not, not so good.
A second friend who had played on the tour in the 60's. Would have me rock back and forth with a pitching wedge or a low iron. The purpose from both friends was to get my feet more involved.

 

[sidewinder22]