"You Might Need New Discs"

[AlphaFoxFL]

For those of you who asked to see the video, here it is:

https://www.wevideo.com/view/1781442838

Once again, thanks for your comments. I really have been reading through them all and trying to absorb their knowledge and advice, so thanks again.

 

[RoDeO]

For those of you who asked to see the video, here it is:

https://www.wevideo.com/view/1781442838

Once again, thanks for your comments. I really have been reading through them all and trying to absorb their knowledge and advice, so thanks again.

Your discs are going way too high. That's your first and main problem. For your arm strength, focus on releasing your discs so thst they never get more than about 8-10 off the ground at its height apex. The next thing is you are too straight up from your core upwards. This is causing you to anhyzer your release. Try bending at your mid section and get over the disc somewhat. I think those two things corrected and you should easily get 250-270 feet consistantly.

 

[RoDeO]

BTW, I had my longest throw last night off a tee that went 330ish feet and it never got more than 8-9 feet off the ground.

 

[Mocheez]

It took me several rounds at the field throwing my fastest discs as hard as I could to get to a new level with distance with all my discs. I think it holds true throwing any kind of disc if you don't have the right form it won't go far. Throwing faster discs helped me to adjust to the needed velocity at release to throw them right. I worked on getting that snap later and quicker. When I went back to the slower discs they turned into rollers and so now I'm learning to hyzer flip them. I flat out can't throw putters far because they feel awkward in my hand and so I use a traditional frisbee fan grip with pointer finger on the rim. I can still throw it around 200 feet but I'm not going to be throwing discs like that generally. With my 5-6 speed midrange discs it's hard to throw them far as I haven't quite mastered the release angle. Im really most comfortable with My speed 7 River as my main driver for shots up to about 275 feet. Anything around 300 and over I use the distance drivers because they go laser straight and are easy to control down long narrow fairways. I'm a big fan for trying to throw hard and using higher speed discs to push you to increase snap and velocity.

I don't intend for this to be rude but it sounds like you followed the classic beginners route to bad form. You shouldn't need to throw slower discs on a hyzer angle to get them flying straight. Drivers mask the form flaws that putters and mids expose. Your follow up advice on this thread has been good but you may want to iron out the issues that are having with slower discs before you go any further with drivers.

 

[RoDeO]

I don't intend for this to be rude but it sounds like you followed the classic beginners route to bad form. You shouldn't need to throw slower discs on a hyzer angle to get them flying straight. Drivers mask the form flaws that putters and mids expose. Your follow up advice on this thread has been good but you may want to iron out the issues that are having with slower discs before you go any further with drivers.

I kind of did that when I first started throwing RHBH. I went out and bought fast discs and was all arming them mostly and then I just played too much without giving my body a chance to recover (I'm 47) which led to an overuse strain in my forearm. Took a week off and decided to learn left handed from scratch. Read a billion threads, watched videos, bought new discs, etc. My main problem or difference throwing LHBH is my grip. I'm only comfortable with a two or three finger grip and I think it imparts quite a bit of spin on the disc and I have a hard time with the hyzer angle at release to get them so they don't flip over. A lot of my discs are lighter too which doesn't help. When I was first learning it was great. Now, a month later, a lot of those slower discs like my leopard and Diamond just flip over so fast it's almost impossible to throw far. I definitely need to learn how to hyzer flip them better or get different or heavier discs.

Overall I think my form is pretty good for how long I've been throwing.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

I did notice my balance causing me to constantly throw anheizers, and thankfully someone a moment ago pointed out that my grip had no pressure on the top of the disc, which should help with both the release angle and keeping the disc nose-down. The balance part I'll have to work on as well.

Just found this video, and it pointed out two more things I was doing wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9tEo9MYKI

One, I just thought about bringing the disc straight across my chest, I didn't think about pulling it into my chest before the throw itself; and two, I feel like I'm putting too much effort into reaching back, instead of just focusing on having the disc on a straight line to the target behind me, I'm just reaching along that line as far back as possible, and it has my body so far turned around that in order to get my shoulders in the right place, I have to turn my body almost 180-degrees.

I've been trying to focus on the "perfectly straight pull" aspect of throwing, trying to learn it the way people say such as "pulling it like a lawn-mower cord" or something like that, but that actually has caused pretty bad tension in my rotator cuff, so I'm keeping myself inside for the time-being to not injure myself any more.

 

[RoDeO]

I did notice my balance causing me to constantly throw anheizers, and thankfully someone a moment ago pointed out that my grip had no pressure on the top of the disc, which should help with both the release angle and keeping the disc nose-down. The balance part I'll have to work on as well.

Just found this video, and it pointed out two more things I was doing wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9tEo9MYKI

One, I just thought about bringing the disc straight across my chest, I didn't think about pulling it into my chest before the throw itself; and two, I feel like I'm putting too much effort into reaching back, instead of just focusing on having the disc on a straight line to the target behind me, I'm just reaching along that line as far back as possible, and it has my body so far turned around that in order to get my shoulders in the right place, I have to turn my body almost 180-degrees.

I've been trying to focus on the "perfectly straight pull" aspect of throwing, trying to learn it the way people say such as "pulling it like a lawn-mower cord" or something like that, but that actually has caused pretty bad tension in my rotator cuff, so I'm keeping myself inside for the time-being to not injure myself any more.

Just one note, it's not a straight through pull. Watch Paul Mcbeth and especially the motion the disc makes from reach back into release. It makes a zigzag line where it starts away, comes in near to the body then comes back out making a faint "v" shape.
https://youtu.be/wBackZwvejE

Understanding this helped ease tension on my shoulder and added about 40 feet instantly to my drive.

 

[SaROCaM]

I kind of did that when I first started throwing RHBH. I went out and bought fast discs and was all arming them mostly and then I just played too much without giving my body a chance to recover (I'm 47) which led to an overuse strain in my forearm. Took a week off and decided to learn left handed from scratch. Read a billion threads, watched videos, bought new discs, etc. My main problem or difference throwing LHBH is my grip. I'm only comfortable with a two or three finger grip and I think it imparts quite a bit of spin on the disc and I have a hard time with the hyzer angle at release to get them so they don't flip over. A lot of my discs are lighter too which doesn't help. When I was first learning it was great. Now, a month later, a lot of those slower discs like my leopard and Diamond just flip over so fast it's almost impossible to throw far. I definitely need to learn how to hyzer flip them better or get different or heavier discs.

Overall I think my form is pretty good for how long I've been throwing.

Again I point to things like the starter pack challenge where pros with 500+ foot power are throwing slow 140-150g discs around 400 feet.

You may be imparting OAT or doing something to make those discs fly flippier than they should. Yes they are flippy discs but a starter pack Leopard should still be able to fly close to your current average distance.

 

[SaROCaM]

I did notice my balance causing me to constantly throw anheizers, and thankfully someone a moment ago pointed out that my grip had no pressure on the top of the disc, which should help with both the release angle and keeping the disc nose-down. The balance part I'll have to work on as well.

Just found this video, and it pointed out two more things I was doing wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9tEo9MYKI

One, I just thought about bringing the disc straight across my chest, I didn't think about pulling it into my chest before the throw itself; and two, I feel like I'm putting too much effort into reaching back, instead of just focusing on having the disc on a straight line to the target behind me, I'm just reaching along that line as far back as possible, and it has my body so far turned around that in order to get my shoulders in the right place, I have to turn my body almost 180-degrees.

I've been trying to focus on the "perfectly straight pull" aspect of throwing, trying to learn it the way people say such as "pulling it like a lawn-mower cord" or something like that, but that actually has caused pretty bad tension in my rotator cuff, so I'm keeping myself inside for the time-being to not injure myself any more.

Go check out the various videos in the form improvement threads. Then watch them again. Things like "reciprocating dingle arm" and "windmill drill" should help with getting the feeling of more effortless throwing so you aren't injuring yourself. Use gravity and other "free" sources of momentum to your advantage. No need to feel like you are throwing so hard in order to get results.

 

[RoDeO]

Again I point to things like the starter pack challenge where pros with 500+ foot power are throwing slow 140-150g discs around 400 feet.

You may be imparting OAT or doing something to make those discs fly flippier than they should. Yes they are flippy discs but a starter pack Leopard should still be able to fly close to your current average distance.

Yeah, if you put enough hyzer angle on em. That's my problem right now is I am struggling to get the hyzer angle on them. My release is more flat and so they just flip over.

 

[Casey 1988]

Yeah, if you put enough hyzer angle on em. That's my problem right now is I am struggling to get the hyzer angle on them. My release is more flat and so they just flip over.

Then you are overpowering the discs.

 

[SaROCaM]

Yeah, if you put enough hyzer angle on em. That's my problem right now is I am struggling to get the hyzer angle on them. My release is more flat and so they just flip over.

Watch Eagle's throw starting at the 20:07 mark. That is a 145g DX Aviar thrown 400' on an anhyzer. There is a lot going on in a throw beyond hyzer/flat*/anhyzer. It is also about lines/height, the relationship between velocity and spin, keeping swing planes consistent through the follow through, etc. So even thrown on an anhyzer, a lightweight putter can still go far.



*A true "flat" release is difficult as any slight deviation, even one degree, puts you either in hyzer or anhyzer.

 

[armiller]

For those of you who asked to see the video, here it is:

https://www.wevideo.com/view/1781442838

Once again, thanks for your comments. I really have been reading through them all and trying to absorb their knowledge and advice, so thanks again.

A couple quick observations from me, though I'm definitely no form guru.

1) Your hips rotate way too early. The real power from a disc golf throw comes from the ground up, and that starts mainly in the hips, allowing the big muscles in legs and core to get involved. In all of your throws, your hips go from a closed to open position completely BEFORE your arm starts swinging. (Nate talks about that a bit in the video I posted earlier, talking about hips pointing backwards and then pointing forwards.) That means you've already lost ALL of the energy from your lower body before throwing. Probably one of those "crush the can" or "driving the hip" video would be useful. You're doing one thing we all do at first. You're trying to make your throw LOOK like a disc golf throw (e.g. reachback, upper body rotation). So the reachback or rotation may look kind of right, but your throw generates no power.

2) Nose-up issues. Those throws that hook way left are quite nose up. There can be a lot of issues that cause that, but I find it helpful to correct any grip issues and work on the swing plane and follow-through.

Once again, both of these things are relatively easy to fix, and confirm that you have lots of distance ahead of you to gain.

 

[Casey 1988]

The only other thing I see a grip issue/timing issue that will fix its self over time as the disc comes out late or early. That is just practice and you go too far with the after disc fallow though from what I have seen the pros that hit lines most of the time.

 

[RoDeO]

Watch Eagle's throw starting at the 20:07 mark. That is a 145g DX Aviar thrown 400' on an anhyzer. There is a lot going on in a throw beyond hyzer/flat*/anhyzer. It is also about lines/height, the relationship between velocity and spin, keeping swing planes consistent through the follow through, etc. So even thrown on an anhyzer, a lightweight putter can still go far.



*A true "flat" release is difficult as any slight deviation, even one degree, puts you either in hyzer or anhyzer.

Yeah, there's a reason they don't throw them everyday. Just look at their scores. Some of their shots are on such extreme hyzer angles and they have no real control with them. Quite often they just use them as rollers. It's actually kind of hilarious to watch. They aren't really bombing them consistantly far or in control. Proof that they are beginner discs for low speed arms just beginning to learn. They weren't really meant to be thrown 400 feet. You don't run on to guys on the course who throw 400 feet and are using the Leopard DX 150g as their driver. Why? Because they aren't going to get consistant or controllable 400 foot shots with the disc. The window to throw that far with reasonable control with that disc is so miniscule it defeats the purpose.

I'm very interested in continuing to learn the hyzer flip better but for now, when I want 300 feet down a fairly narrow corridor I'm bringing the Mamba or Escape out. I know I have the best chance of lacing a fairly straight fairway shot with one of those discs.

 

[SaROCaM]

Yeah, there's a reason they don't throw them everyday. Just look at their scores. Some of their shots are on such extreme hyzer angles and they have no real control with them. Quite often they just use them as rollers. It's actually kind of hilarious to watch. They aren't really bombing them consistantly far or in control. Proof that they are beginner discs for low speed arms just beginning to learn. They weren't really meant to be thrown 400 feet. You don't run on to guys on the course who throw 400 feet and are using the Leopard DX 150g as their driver. Why? Because they aren't going to get consistant or controllable 400 foot shots with the disc. The window to throw that far with reasonable control with that disc is so miniscule it defeats the purpose.

I'm very interested in continuing to learn the hyzer flip better but for now, when I want 300 feet down a fairly narrow corridor I'm bringing the Mamba or Escape out. I know I have the best chance of lacing a fairly straight fairway shot with one of those discs.

Missing the point.

The point is that they are not as unthrowable as you make them out to be, especially for people throwing them similar distances to you and OP. You can certainly get a lot more out of them than you currently are, even without hyzerflipping.

About those scores: as a group they averaged under +3. A +3 at Dela is 970+ rated. They all threw 950-1000 rated rounds. The point here is that again, those discs are not as unthrowable as you state.

This:

when I want 300 feet down a fairly narrow corridor I'm bringing the Mamba or Escape out.

means you are still closer to this:

low speed arms just beginning to learn.

You and OP are having issues getting those basic discs past 200 feet. That is something that, assuming you want to improve, you should really figure out. Based on what you have described, it sounds like it is more than simply learning the hyzerflip.

Again, play your scoring rounds with whatever works best. But when it comes to learning and improving, for you, for OP, and anyone else in a similar situation, there are some fundamental issues that throwing those "starter" discs will help you figure out.

 

[SaROCaM]

Well, RoDeO... I might try out one of my friends' higher speed discs at some point, but settling for a 150ft mid throw is something I don't want to do. I've been out tirelessly trying to fix my technique so I can get the most out of the discs I have, because I want to be able to throw any disc at its potential rather than just the long ones. I want to get a good base established so that I know how to manipulate any disc put into my hand with time. I don't just want a good "driver throw," I want a throw that works no matter what disc I am using. I'm hopefully going to film myself soon so I can have it critiqued, because this is killing me right now...

Stay the course; this will be better for improvement in the long run. It is tempting to try to "buy" distance, or compensate for form flaws, with faster/more stable discs. What you have right now is fine. If you feel the itch to buy more plastic, get more putters, (good for putting practice and throwing) neutral/stable midranges, slower fairway drivers, really just multiples of the basics for practice purposes and in case you happen to lose discs. I'll point out that the slower fairway drivers of today were once considered long range distance drivers. Something speed 7 like a Teebird or Eagle can be used for 350' or more, and they fly well in DX plastic so it is relatively affordable to get multiples for practice.

Also I saw you started a technique thread. Sidewinder22 and the regulars will take care of you there. Others who have helpful content here and on youtube include slowplastic, loopghost/heavydisc, and more. Might take some time to understand and to feel what they are describing, but once you get it, you will throw farther and more effortlessly.

As for the "you should be able to throw X disc Y feet," the numbers will change, but it is the underlying concept that is important; that is, develop a solid foundation of clean throwing rather than using fast discs to mask/compensate for form flaws. It sounds like you are on this path.

Looks like you are around 150 for mids/200 for drivers. Focus on clean form rather than distance; the distance will happen. You shouldn't feel like you have to throw hard. Work on the basics and you should see something like 200/250/300 for putter/mid/driver, even with a standstill/one-step throw.

 

[Rastnav]

What armiller and SaROCaM said.

As a fellow new player, here are the two form videos that have helped me the most in improving and understanding.

Backhand form:
https://youtu.be/yBb_PeWHUhM

Try a two finger grip to help throw nose down. Key thing is to get it held in the knuckles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5zH_jQYjQ

 

[Keller]

If the starter pack challenge doesn't prove anything to some, check these two out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLiOsUkU-Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi82PJD9fzc


I'm a regular at two pitch and putts and I'm always running into new players. I've spent a lot of time teaching people to throw, giving discs away and generally trying to grow the game in my area and the one thing I have noticed is; it seems to be getting harder and harder to teach new players.

You slow them down, fix their weird run-ups and grips, play a few rounds with them with nothing but 3-4 discs and teach them how to read what went wrong with their throw by watching their disc. Their eyes light up, they make leaps and bounds improvements in short time, and the next time you see them, they are back to throwing a Boss looking for instant distance.

Last year I was doing some field work and a 4-some showed up on the first tee. They were watching me throw in the field and one of them came over and asked me how I was throwing so far, (I don't throw far, but I can get a DX Teedird to 300 though). He said; you look like you're hardly throwing it, wana play a round with us, maybe give me a few pointers? Sure, why not. So I did what I usually do and all went well.

The next week I ran into the same group in the parking lot and they asked me to join them. Before we started, one guy shows me a 150gr DX Shark he found in the woods. Said it's the most flippy piece of crap he's thrown. I look at it and say, it's almost new, this isn't flippy and I give it a quick toss. He was amazed. I offered to play the whole round with it just to show them that you don't need drivers on this course, (the longest hole is 300ft). Anyway, I had fun, not one Katana, Boss or Wraith flew further than my Shark, one guy left in a pissed huff, a couple come out to the field for some field work and all ends well. Next month I see them and yes, they are all back to high speed drivers.

In another thread I mentioned the SD86 philosophy of disc golf; that is, don't improve, argue with known paths to success and justify buying new discs in the search for distance instead of taking a step back and re-learning and fixing flaws.

Here is an in the bag a non-300ft SD86 type thrower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwxr2iqKQpU
Don't be that guy; unless you just want to buy lots of plastic

You have a choice;
become frustrated, possibly hurt yourself, spend loads of money searching for distance and maybe even quit.

Or

Learn to throw well and enjoy the game and the rewards of watching a beautifully thrown disc and have the satisfaction of knowing that "you" made that shot, not the disc.

This thread gets a lot of hate from the SD86 type thrower
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790
But I'll post it again anyway.
If one follows this 4 disc set up for a few months and sticks with it, it will improve your game, you will learn how to throw different lines and you will reap rewards from the effort.

Or you can just argue from a place of stubborn ignorance.

Best of luck

 

[ray1970]

I'm one of those idiots that spent a lot of time searching for that magic disc that would add distance when I first started playing. Disc golf is almost 100% the Indian and not the arrow.

I looked at the video of the OP throwing and there is definitely a lot of stuff wrong with that form. I am not really one to point out everything to work on but just getting the disc out level with the nose down will probably double his distance.