Cnote
Par Member
:thmbup:
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2011 PDGA Pro World Disc Golf Championships: Monterey Bay, California
- Thread starter JHern
- Start date
:thmbup:
jack straw
Bogey Member
I would like to know what the $60 will be used for? If it is being used to defray costs I would suggest lowering payout rather than charging people to donate their time.
$10 a night to camp and have all that sweet entertainment and comradery? That's an incredible bargain. Imagine the crowd as the Gregg Barsby show is about to start chanting "IRON LEAF! IRON LEAF! PLAY FREE BIRD!!! IRON LEAF!"
OK, JHern could have chosen better words when he said:
"$60 is nothing. If somebody doesn't even want to invest that much, then we're not at all interested in having them."
From a TD's perspective, however, managing "volunteers" is a very difficult task. It can be hard to discern the workers from those that are just there to smoke weed, dick around, and later brag about how they "helped" from the true mules. Managing volunteers always requires kid gloves and lots of follow-up to make sure tasks that are assigned are actually completed. I've managed volunteers that have blown me away with their work ethic and initiative. I've also managed "volunteers" that are just about stroking their own egos with how great they are for showing up. They'll say, "I'm here to help and do whatever you need done", then when a task is assigned either say "why don't we do this instead", "you could get so and so to do that task and I'll do task X instead", or "Ok", but with a look in their eye that says they're not going to do it and instead wander around and distract the people that actually are working.
A very large part of the reason that the Players Cup lost its original venue was that "volunteers" were wandering around the property openly smoking weed. Of course, it was easier and more dramatic to blame the rock star pros for trashing out the condos.
Bottom line, volunteering requires a commitment. For those that don't wish to volunteer, spectators are also encouraged to attend the event.
OK, JHern could have chosen better words when he said:
"$60 is nothing. If somebody doesn't even want to invest that much, then we're not at all interested in having them."
From a TD's perspective, however, managing "volunteers" is a very difficult task. It can be hard to discern the workers from those that are just there to smoke weed, dick around, and later brag about how they "helped" from the true mules. Managing volunteers always requires kid gloves and lots of follow-up to make sure tasks that are assigned are actually completed. I've managed volunteers that have blown me away with their work ethic and initiative. I've also managed "volunteers" that are just about stroking their own egos with how great they are for showing up. They'll say, "I'm here to help and do whatever you need done", then when a task is assigned either say "why don't we do this instead", "you could get so and so to do that task and I'll do task X instead", or "Ok", but with a look in their eye that says they're not going to do it and instead wander around and distract the people that actually are working.
A very large part of the reason that the Players Cup lost its original venue was that "volunteers" were wandering around the property openly smoking weed. Of course, it was easier and more dramatic to blame the rock star pros for trashing out the condos.
Bottom line, volunteering requires a commitment. For those that don't wish to volunteer, spectators are also encouraged to attend the event.
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
And from the host's posts it sounds like the volunteers are going to get some pretty good return on their $60.
From a volunteer's perspective, volunteering is a very generous (and rewarding) task. I'm sure there are people out there that would be fine giving their valuable time who aren't looking for swag and also aren't willing to pay to donate their time. That shouldn't make them "unwanted" or unuseful. (did I just make up a word?)
I don't see how charging volunteers corrects this issue. How is this better than just telling volunteers to not smoke weed and that if they are seen doing it they will be asked to leave?
FTFY
How much are they being charged?
jack straw
Bogey Member
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
Read the posts from the host.
For those questioning on why they are charging to volunteer, this provides some perspective.
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=34717
I wish them the best, but I think they're going to realize that a practice that has worked in ball golf, likely is not going to work in disc golf, for all the obvious reasons.
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=34717
I wish them the best, but I think they're going to realize that a practice that has worked in ball golf, likely is not going to work in disc golf, for all the obvious reasons.
All that post says is that it is to help raise funds. In ball golf at least the volunteers are getting something that spectators pay (usually a lot) for, watching the tournament. That doesn't relate to disc golf.
It seems inherently wrong to use volunteer spectators to pad the payout. And the swag is nice but is donated to the tourney so it doesn't need to be charged for to recoup costs. This post from the link resonates with me.
"I volunteered for the 2006 Worlds and didn't have to pay and was well compensated for giving up a week of vacation. $60 for $115 of schwag? Plus you cover your own travel and hotel expenses? Sounds like a deal to me. I don't think the USDGC charges volunteers, but they get a nice bit of schwag for helping out. Are you guys low on sponsors already? That's $12,000 you're asking from the volunteers."
Yes, you're right that I could have been more diplomatic. I apologize for that. :doh: The stress of the approaching tournament and all the stuff left to do sometimes gets me stressed and irritable, and less willing to respond nicely to such queries. Sorry, I'll try to rectify that by giving a more appropriate response...
The $60 investment is a filter that helps us attract only the most committed volunteers, and its working spectacularly well. I know most of the volunteers who have signed up personally, and they are the best of the best of the best. Hands down, this will be the very best volunteer corps ever assembled in the history of disc golf. And we're so excited to have this crew. Because that is absolutely necessary in order for Tom Schot to achieve his vision.
I was also confused about the $60 when Tom Schot first announced his plans, but after seeing how its working out, I'm completely sold. He was sold on it when he participated in PGA events (e.g., AT&T at Pebble Beach, where they asked for $200), and saw the impact that this kind of system had on the quality and enthusiasm of the volunteer corps.
Basically, it changes the meaning of what it means to be a volunteer. It goes away from the idea of a volunteer who engages only passively and peripherally, to somebody who is engaged, invested, and committed to working to make the event the best it can be, and is more an integral part of the event than otherwise. It makes things different, such that the volunteers are a major part of putting on the event...they are putting on the event.
And, it also touches on something deeper than that. A lot of these older guys and gals have been busting their asses building courses, maintaining them, putting on huge events, investing vast sums of money, and building the sport of disc golf (among others) for generations. It is an unbelievable effort. They love the work. They love to sacrifice to make something greater than themselves, for the benefit of others.
On the other hand, most casual and rec players, and even too many tournament players, take all this for granted. They just expect everything to be there for them, for free, and without any effort on their part. Its always "me, me me" and "what do I get?" This is a curse on our entire culture, and its presently destroying our country. In working to build disc golf, and to put on the most epic Worlds ever, we've found an antidote to all that. And it feels great! We can come together and contribute positively to something we all love, for a community of people who are amazing. But this is simply Civics 101.
There are so many who never support their local club, who don't support the PDGA, who don't ever come out for work days, and who just sit and bicker and complain about anything they don't like, that others are actually getting off their butts and doing. These are takers, not givers. That's fine, we're working to build recreation for everyone, and we don't expect everybody to give back to the effort. We're just as pleased that everyone is enjoying the sport.
However, for putting on this kind of event, the $60 investment we're asking of volunteers helps to ensure that they are on the more appropriate end of the spectrum, because that's who we are, and how we identify ourselves. We're givers and workers, and we want to get together with other givers and workers, and put on the most amazing event.
Beyond that, if the disc golf clothing, lavish banquet, volunteer party, free discs, Keen DeLa shoes, concerts, poker tournaments, unprecedented access to the pros, and other volunteer schwag aren't enough to offset your concerns about the investment, then I have nothing else to offer you in response to your queries...
...And in my mind that means that you would not fit in well with 2011 Pro Worlds volunteer corps.
OK, I hope that better explains my position on the matter.
Ok Scott- can we stop the melodrama?
The $60 helps insure that the people volunteering (like was mentioned) are there to work hard and not bail. You're less likely to get a "phone call" saying you have to leave and can't work more if you've personally invested in the operations of the tournament.
Furthermore, you have no idea what you're talking about and haven't even scratched the surface of what volunteers get. For more (correct and accurate) information talk to JHern who actually knows what is going on and he can fill you in.
You're trying to rally a cry for change but what you're actually doing is crapping all over a group of people who realize what this particular tournament can mean for disc golf. We have decided that a $60 donation to get the experience that PGA volunteers would pay 4-figures for in their sport is nothing (Buy 4 less discs this year? 5 maybe? I think I can budget that). If you don't want to come out and volunteer then don't - but we're not going to miss someone who is only out to cause trouble - and don't sit and badmouth people trying to make this sport better by trying something new.
Eaaaaasy boy. I'm just making conversation and I'm allowed to have and state my point of view. Not trying to cause melodrama, that might be in your head.
I don't know why you state that I have no idea what I'm talking about. All I've done is ask questions and quote a couple other people. And I'm not trying to rally a cry for change. Just asking why things have been changed. And I haven't challenged "what volunteers get" in any way. In fact I wondered if people who were broke could volunteer and refuse the "freebies."
Sorry if you aren't able to deal with my questions. I felt they were reasonable and probably representative of what many other people were wondering. I'm willing to stop posting about it at this point (haven't gotten any reasonable replies anyway) if that will make you feel better.
Thank you for your (and everyone else's) hard work to make Worlds happen. I hope to attend next year and if I do not play I will surely volunteer. Unless it costs $60.
A few other minor points:
1) The volunteer investment has nothing to do with the tournament purse, it isn't being used to pad any pay-outs. In fact, the $60 barely covers a volunteer's expense for attending the tournament banquet. The competitors, on the other hand, have to pay to get tickets to the banquet.
2) Partial volunteer time: Yes, we do understand that some people can't be around for the entire tournament, or can only be scheduled at certain times of day. We are accommodating them.
3) The economy really sucks, there aren't any jobs, and just about everyone is broke. Some people have sent in requests to be sponsored by somebody else who is willing to sponsor a volunteer, and that's definitely going to happen. However, it might be a bit late in the process to get in on that now.
1) The volunteer investment has nothing to do with the tournament purse, it isn't being used to pad any pay-outs. In fact, the $60 barely covers a volunteer's expense for attending the tournament banquet. The competitors, on the other hand, have to pay to get tickets to the banquet.
2) Partial volunteer time: Yes, we do understand that some people can't be around for the entire tournament, or can only be scheduled at certain times of day. We are accommodating them.
3) The economy really sucks, there aren't any jobs, and just about everyone is broke. Some people have sent in requests to be sponsored by somebody else who is willing to sponsor a volunteer, and that's definitely going to happen. However, it might be a bit late in the process to get in on that now.
Great response! While I personally would still have a difficult time ponying up the $60 to volunteer, I understand the decision a little better now. Thanks! :thmbup:
Hopefully you will post after the event to let us know how it went.
Will do! We will post photos, videos, stories, and all sorts of other stuff. I'll make a point to get it linked on the 2011 Pro Worlds website after the event.
I'm going to do my best to also share the event on our website during the event, but I can't make any big promises about what I'll be able to contribute during those busy days.
We will also, of course, post our experiences and recommendations for future events so that future Worlds TDs will be able to assess different strategies.
Fair enough - I was mainly upset at telling somebody they ought to be ashamed of how they're representing worlds based on one internet post to your rather...antagonistic statement upfront.
Your questions are quite valid, I don't mean to belittle them. However I do think because it's a (semi) public forum people will see opposing viewpoints if and knee jerk to say "they're doing this all wrong" if both sides aren't presented diplomatically. I think we're all on the same team here and want to see this sport grow. :thmbup:
As long as I don't have to wait too much during my casual rounds.
Stay in ATL then
NorCal already has waits like it's disneyland. :gross:
Stay in ATL then
Just got confirmation that I'm moving to Charlotte in the immediate future. Worlds 2012 here I come!
Anybody want to help load/unload boxes this weekend? Send your $60 application to...
Sorry couldn't help myself! I promise I'm done.
Cnote
Par Member
I totally agree with the above, and sadly I play with a few people with this attitude.
I love the sport and love having DeLa a my local course. But to be honest I haven't had the best experience volunteering myself.
I volunteered for the 2010 Masters, was one of the first people to show up a 7:30a so they stuck me on hole 2, they said lunch would be handed out around noon, I saw a half a sandwich at about 3p, they said there would be volunteer shirts and a disc or whatever, I never got either. As I was leaving I saw that others had theirs. Maybe that is what I get for showing up early. I was not in it for the schwag, and not bitching about that, as I was there more to help out with a sport I enjoy.
Helping out session number two. Took a day off work to volunteer for a work day, as they were in the morning mid week. Showed up to help and did not get much of an acknowledgement, no big deal. So I asked what I could help with as I was not up to speed on the tasks at hand. I was asked to move dirt from one spot to another to back fill a tee box...no problem. While I was doing this most of the other people were still at the parking lot talking, before going onto their task. A while later I was invited to help with the task they were working on which was great as it was a big job (making a retaining wall for a tee box). At the end of the day I was glad I could help and felt good about it.
Session three. My buddy had a potted tree he was wanting to get rid of. We asked if they might want it for the course. "Sure bring it by and put it by hole 11". A few days later we brought it by and while we were dropping it off, we were approached and asked what we were up to. We explained that we were donating a tree and that this is where we were asked to put it. Everything ended up being cool, and I understand the "regulars" where concerned with what was going on (making sure we weren't dropping trash or whatever). But it just didn't come across as real friendly. The tree was planted, and now every time we play we give it water.
Session four: Again my buddy had some spare dried bamboo (makes for a good disc retrieval tool), we strapped them to the car and dropped them off at the course. This time it was pretty well received, but there was also a comment that it was taking away from this persons "business" as he retrieves disc and sells them. What ever we see them being used on the course and makes us feel good.
I have also asked what could be done on my own and on my own time to help. I was told that I could go out and trim/clear the fairways of any loose branches and such, pick up debris and dead fall. Then a few days later there was a big bitch fest about someone cutting a branch that made the hole too easy, due to not being in the know of what obstacles make a hole I opted out of that. so I decided to just stick to picking up trash and dead fall when I play.
I can't be at the course all the time so I don't know everybody club, but when I come to help it just seems like there would be a more of a warm welcome form the "friendly" disc golf community. Maybe I just need to keep with it and I will be part of the "club" at some point. Honestly it made me shy away form volunteering for the Worlds...that plus not being able to commit to 4 days. It has nothing to do with the $60.
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