[MVP] MVP Disc Sports (Official Thread) (Part III)

[Toro71]

The more I throw the Photon and Wave, the more I want a disc that fills in the rather large gap between them. Any chance Axoim will be releasing a disc like that anytime soon?

You may throw harder than me, but for me, a max wt. (176 actually) Wave is pretty different from a mid-160s. Still turns, but much less new, and with a more aggressive fade.

If you're already @ max wt with both and seeing a big difference, then never mind.

I'm glad for the P Photon. Love those P driver stamps, and the slightly flexy P drivers in general.

 

[SD86]

The more I throw the Photon and Wave, the more I want a disc that fills in the rather large gap between them. Any chance Axoim will be releasing a disc like that anytime soon?

Don't know what Wave you're throwing, but I'd suggest a max wt. Wave. My 173g Wave flies more overstable than my 163g Wave, which is more stable than my (flippy) 153g Wave. Those ten grams between discs make a big difference for me.

 

[asc349]

Really looking forward to the Proton Photon and Amp. Of the 4 new DD Photon is my favorite. It will be nice to have it in 3 plastics to cover each stability.

Seriously a Proton Amp, how can you not want that, long time coming. Maybe a Shock and Resistor in the near future.

Relax Aim just having fun and busting balls, figured I owed you one anyway.
Agreed Zam the magic baker.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Seriously a Proton Amp, how can you not want that,

Cause I don't throw the Amp. However, I do throw the proxy and you know what that means...








...soft proxyopcorn:

 

[thePiRaTE]

Cause I don't throw the Amp. However, I do throw the proxy and you know what that means...








...soft proxyopcorn:

How about a dome-y soft Plasma Proxy? Since we're both dreaming apparently, lol.

 

[asc349]

I'm not bagging the Amp right now either but I still want one in Proton, just because

 

[Aim For The Chains]

How about a dome-y soft Plasma Proxy? Since we're both dreaming apparently, lol.

Domey putters? Whachusmoken?

:gross:

 

[PMantle]

My Outlaw is turning into the wind more than I thought it would. Haven't had much luck with AJ Destroyers. Would a Neutron Photon fit there?

 

[Toro71]

My Outlaw is turning into the wind more than I thought it would. Haven't had much luck with AJ Destroyers. Would a Neutron Photon fit there?

Yep. You might not even need a full-on max wt. For me max wt. Ns turn a little into wind, but mostly just get that longer delayed fade type action.

Unless you're talking blustery, in which case I'm going Motion/Phase

 

[PMantle]

Yep. You might not even need a full-on max wt. For me max wt. Ns turn a little into wind, but mostly just get that longer delayed fade type action.

Unless you're talking blustery, in which case I'm going Motion/Phase

I never carry max weight. Maybe I should start for the into the wind stuff.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Protons are marketed as a little more OS but not sure how dome will impact vs headwind. My max weight neutrons are good into headwind vs 160s that turn and fade less.

 

[thePiRaTE]

Domey putters? Whachusmoken?

:gross:

lol, its been so long since I've thrown a domey putter, what with MVP consistency. Wouldn't that add glide to a mold like the Proxy? Until we get a gyro lid...

 

[thePiRaTE]

Just read-up:

"While there is a common belief that discs that have higher domes are more "flippy" than flatter discs (especially when they are variations of the same model), this is only partially true. Discs with a higher dome will generally be less high-speed stable than a flatter version of the same disc, but the high-domed disc will also be more apt to flex out if it gets turned. A flatter disc is more difficult to turn but is more likely to keep turning after the turn begins. This is due to the gyroscopic effect and can be illustrated by the physics example of a spinning bicycle wheel with handles.

If you equate the spinning wheel to the flat disc, you will see it is hard to turn the wheel off of its axis, but once it gets turning it will continue to turn farther in that direction. If you picture the spinning bicycle wheel where one side of the spokes is conical/triangular in shape, it will be easy to turn in one direction up to a point (and it will exert less gyroscopic forces) but it is also easier to turn back in the opposite direction. Late in a disc's flight it has lost a lot of its initial rotation and velocity and as the disc slows, a disc with a high dome will be more apt to stay in the air and fade back left. Wind will affect a disc with a higher dome more than a flatter version since the taller profile will be more affected by the wind. " - Blake Takkunen (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/discqualities.shtml)

So - more glide = more fade (makes sense). More dome = less desirable wind profile (meh...). Yeah, probably pass on my domey Proxy. Still want the lid though!

 

[ZAMson]

generally I think the threshold for dome effect on stability is around Speed 7. Narrow winged discs act less stable with dome, and wide winged discs act more overstable with dome. That's assuming the manufacturer doesn't biff their PLH or ya know, use the wrong mold.

 

[PMantle]

My Meteors have made me stop trying to apply rules to dome.

 

[Toro71]

The Blake quote kind of makes sense, though attributing the effect to the "gyroscopic effect" is unfortunate since I don't think that has much to do with it.

More dome will mostly increase lift. Whether it changes the moment of lift, I don't know, but it probably depends on the mold in question.

But for a given mold, increasing the force of lift will only make it less HSS if the moment of lift is already to the rear of the center of the disc, and how much so, or if increasing the dome has also moved the moment of lift further back from the center of the disc.

The other thing is, from one mold to another, it may be more or less possible to change the dome without altering other key aspects of the configuration that also effect flight characteristics.

 

[Toro71]

The Blake quote kind of makes sense, though attributing the effect to the "gyroscopic effect" is unfortunate since I don't think that has much to do with it.

More dome will mostly increase lift. Whether it changes the moment of lift, I don't know, but it probably depends on the mold in question.

But for a given mold, increasing the force of lift will only make it less HSS if the moment of lift is already to the rear of the center of the disc, and how much so, or if increasing the dome has also moved the moment of lift further back from the center of the disc.

The other thing is, from one mold to another, it may be more or less possible to change the dome without altering other key aspects of the configuration that also effect flight characteristics.

Re. the bolded bit....I don't actually know. Hard to imagine more dome would change the gyroscopics that much, but I'm no physicists...(but I knows what matters.)

 

[ZAMson]

also note that (to my pretty decent DGR knowledge) Blake never wrote about disc physics based on MVP's disc physics. just about everything he wrote is based on single-shot disc physics, and I think the edge-weighted stuff deviates from conventional wisdom. even my thoughts on dome and airspeed/rim width stability effects are based on single-shots, back in my pro shop days watching the driving range. I have lots more experience with single-shots than weighted overmolds.

regardless a domey Proxy sounds gross

 

[thePiRaTE]

also note that (to my pretty decent DGR knowledge) Blake never wrote about disc physics based on MVP's disc physics. just about everything he wrote is based on single-shot disc physics, and I think the edge-weighted stuff deviates from conventional wisdom. even my thoughts on dome and airspeed/rim width stability effects are based on single-shots, back in my pro shop days watching the driving range. I have lots more experience with single-shots than weighted overmolds.

regardless a domey Proxy sounds gross

What about as a hat?

 

[DanJon]

I think sometimes in single shot discs, when a disc is domey, as the plastic cools that dome pulls the PLH up and makes the disc more OS.

For instance Destroyers.

Or maybe not.