Now that's a pro call-out

[JC17393]

Or in my day, from an episode of MTV Extreme Sports with Dan Cortese!

Or what was that Anthony Michael Hall show where he's all growed up now and he wants to take a chick Disco Golfing and he's about to reach a GrandMaster level? Maybe I'm mixing a couple shows there.

TV Movie called Hitched. Horrible movie, kinda horrible depiction of disc golf (the Grandmaster level thing, discs changing color and type in mid flight for holes in one). Still have it on VHS somewhere.


As for the marshall thing, the problem there is 100% financial. There already are marshalls at the highest level events provided by the PDGA (the USDGC had seven). But they're all volunteers with expenses (travel, lodging) covered by the PDGA. But there isn't nearly enough money or, frankly, interested and qualified people to provide marshalls/officials to every single high profile events (say, A-tier and above). At least not in the volume necessary to cover multiple top cards at every event. I think we need a full and true pro tour before we get to that. By that I mean 100+ players touring and playing events around the country/world on a consistent basis (the PGA model). Right now, our "tour" is basically a dozen or so traveling players going from place to place joining in on local events. When the top "tour" players in the world are playing C-tier events as a regular part of their schedule, we don't have much of a "tour". We're getting there, slowly, but we're not there yet.

 

[IDGC_SUPER]

Out of curiosity, are most of the marshalls paid or volunteers? Have not been to an A-Tier or NT yet.

The Marshall program was shut down a number of years ago, it is a self officiated sport. There are PDGA employees present at all majors and NT's but we are there to assist the event, set up PDGA branded items, and help with live coverage, not police the players. If something is brought to us by a player or Tournament Director then we can act.

 

[IDGC_SUPER]

I would place a Marshall on the top 2 cards and have 2 roving about the field

I see zero reason this is not a practical solution for a tiers and NTs if a club cannot provide 4 people to do this do they deserve to call their event an a- tier?

I think this would be an ok solution, but you run into a couple of issues. It's hard to see and call all penalties, and if this program was in place the player's would not call penalties on themselves. Also I think you would have to have the SAME 4 marshals for all events so that rules are called consistently across the tour. The players would also see it unfair that a marshal would walk with the top 2 cards and call EVERYTHING, versus the other groups getting some things called by roving marshals.

 

[Thumber]

I think this would be an ok solution, but you run into a couple of issues. It's hard to see and call all penalties, and if this program was in place the player's would not call penalties on themselves. Also I think you would have to have the SAME 4 marshals for all events so that rules are called consistently across the tour. The players would also see it unfair that a marshal would walk with the top 2 cards and call EVERYTHING, versus the other groups getting some things called by roving marshals.

The top cards are playing for the biggest stakes. I think the extra scrutiny in understandable

 

[IDGC_SUPER]

The top cards are playing for the biggest stakes. I think the extra scrutiny in understandable

The third and fourth cards are also right there in many top events, a player can shoot a hot round from one of these cards and jump into 2nd or 3rd place very easily.

 

[turbine712]

I wonder about how a person on this site (me) can make a simple comment about a statement that was given (which now has been deleated) concerning "prima donnas" can get deleated. All I said was all the professional players I have met have been stand up people and that the only pro I have seen acting like a "prima donna" has been on videos. I was referring to Nikko however I didn't use his name.
Why and who felt that my statement ( which was staying on topic to GB's as well as the flow of the thread) gets deleated? Is this a forum one that needs to be scrutinised with a fine tooth comb? It feels like a person can't really express an opinion without repercussions.

 

[Thumber]

The third and fourth cards are also right there in many top events, a player can shoot a hot round from one of these cards and jump into 2nd or 3rd place very easily.

I admit is a less than perfect solution, but I don't think there are enough resources out there for marshalls on all cards

Really the easiest solution would be for players to enforce the rules honestly

 

[The Hammer]

I wonder about how a person on this site (me) can make a simple comment about a statement that was given (which now has been deleated) concerning "prima donnas" can get deleated. All I said was all the professional players I have met have been stand up people and that the only pro I have seen acting like a "prima donna" has been on videos. I was referring to Nikko however I didn't use his name.
Why and who felt that my statement ( which was staying on topic to GB's as well as the flow of the thread) gets deleated? Is this a forum one that needs to be scrutinised with a fine tooth comb? It feels like a person can't really express an opinion without repercussions.

Look in the landfill, chief.

 

[turbine712]

Thanks Hammer. Glad to see it was moved rather than removed.

 

[discgman]

Kudos to Barsby for stepping up!

Because it is getting more annoying every year. I pay good money to attend events and stay in hotels. But hearing the consistent whining and complaining about the course, about the payouts, about the TD, about their sponsors, about the wind blowing, about their long drive to get to the course, about the people who are walking around the park, about their brothers uncles cousins keeping them up all night. Its getting old. Trying to get a competitive edge by cheating or constantly calling foot fouls is degrading the sport. Your just cheating yourselves. If you cannot be trusted when no one is looking, they you cant be trusted at all.

Yea, I get that your working hard at the sport and trying to keep your competitive edge, but for us people grinding it out every weekend and then having to get up to go to work the next day, I don't want to hear it. Neither does the TD who spent the last 6 months planning the event that gets trashed over a weekend. We all have a common goal and everyone should be respected for just coming out and competing no matter the skill level. If your playing with someone with less skill than you, its your duty as a traveling pro to help that person along any way they can. Give back to the sport that has given you a chance at living and to the people that are paying your payout.

:thmbup:

 

[grodney]

Trying to get a competitive edge by calling foot fouls is degrading the sport.

Following the rules is degrading the sport?

but for us people grinding it out every weekend and then having to get up to go to work the next day

bee-oh-oh, aitch-oh-oh

ProTip: Don't play.

 

[Allurex]

Because it is getting more annoying every year. I pay good money to attend events and stay in hotels. But hearing the consistent whining and complaining about the course, about the payouts, about the TD, about their sponsors, about the wind blowing, about their long drive to get to the course, about the people who are walking around the park, about their brothers uncles cousins keeping them up all night. Its getting old. Trying to get a competitive edge by cheating or constantly calling foot fouls is degrading the sport. Your just cheating yourselves. If you cannot be trusted when no one is looking, they you cant be trusted at all.

I was with you until this. If someone makes a foot fault, it's the responsibility of other players to call it.

inb4footfaultsargument

 

[turbine712]

I think you maybe are missing his point. If I interpret what he is trying to say is that when players call a foot fault as a bid to gain an edge on the player. I have seen it where a player was ahead of a guy and the guy calls a questionable foot fault where the player then gets be fuddled and messes up on the rest of the hole as well as the next few holes. I thinkthat was the point he was trying to convey on what he feels is degrading.

 

[Nemmers]

It seems that he typed a lot but didn't really say anything.

In the Navy we call emails like this "a diarrhea of words and a constipation of ideas.

 

[Slider]

I agree, there would be a drop off in attendance. This is a difficult to solve, we need more money in the sport but at the same time we don't want to undermine our base of disc golf supporters who play because it is inexpensive. Tough...maybe significantly increase the costs for A-tiers and up. But you would think that everyone would even support an increase to pay for some marshalls on a B tier depending on how many open players there, I've been to B tiers where there less than 6 players.

 

[Slider]

I would imagine marshalls would be volunteers, just like anybody else at the tournament. Make them pass the rules exam just like the TD. I see this mainly as an impartial person who could second a call instead of relying on another from the group. I still like the idea of the players enforcing their own rules, but if its suspected that players are intentionally not calling stance violations on each other then something needs to be done.

I really don't like the idea of certain cards getting a marshall, and roaming marshalls are going to miss instances where they are needed. Say if you make it mandatory at a tiers or nts then you're also requiring the hosting club to drum up more help for the event. Its a good idea on paper, but in reality I don't think it would go over that well.

I agree that having a marshall on some cards and a roaming marshall isn't the answer. How about if it is an A-tier on up, have 6 or more marshalls that are stationed at certain holes, that would be some coverage and it slowly introduces having "reffs" that can call you on something...having the difficult holes marshaled. It keeps it fair. As for getting a good marshall...that is always a problem in any sport like basketball some reffs suck and some have years and years of experience that make them indispensible. To become a marshall for certain tiers...maybe you can say the requirement can be 3 years of experience is needed for a marshall on a B tier, and so on and so fourth. I am a marshall, my friend that didn't graduate from high school is a marshall, we are not good "reffs". It could take years to become an expert. I don't think this sport has the depth just yet in terms of experience marshalls. Maybe the PDGA can put on special clinics that train people to call foot faults and how to mark your lie and maybe someother things and test them and test them until they are very good and they pass the test. And to be a marshall, the PDGA can offer $0.50 from every player go to the marshalls to spit it up...my city league basketball team has two reffs that are paid $25 per game.

 

[Slider]

TV Movie called Hitched. Horrible movie, kinda horrible depiction of disc golf (the Grandmaster level thing, discs changing color and type in mid flight for holes in one). Still have it on VHS somewhere.


As for the marshall thing, the problem there is 100% financial. There already are marshalls at the highest level events provided by the PDGA (the USDGC had seven). But they're all volunteers with expenses (travel, lodging) covered by the PDGA. But there isn't nearly enough money or, frankly, interested and qualified people to provide marshalls/officials to every single high profile events (say, A-tier and above). At least not in the volume necessary to cover multiple top cards at every event. I think we need a full and true pro tour before we get to that. By that I mean 100+ players touring and playing events around the country/world on a consistent basis (the PGA model). Right now, our "tour" is basically a dozen or so traveling players going from place to place joining in on local events. When the top "tour" players in the world are playing C-tier events as a regular part of their schedule, we don't have much of a "tour". We're getting there, slowly, but we're not there yet.

I agree to a certain extent that the marshall thing is 100% financial, it is a mixture of money and training, you can get trained to become a basketball reff for highschool events and not play much basketball, I think you can do something similar for DG, you can advertise somethink like this "You want to make a little cash on the weekend, take this clinic and pass the test and become a marshall. This requires conficence and requires you to know the rules of DG and confident to enforce them." that was just a thought on that, but it is very financial, but no totally financial.

 

[DavidSauls]

Personally, I think that the call for marshalls is overkill for a very minor problem. At least at this point in time, or for the foreseeable future.

But there's no reason a TD who thinks differently can't do it and demonstrate how much better it would be. Deputize a bunch of "officials", pay them or draft volunteers, charge more for entries or cut back on payouts, advertise it all, and see if the pros pour in to enjoy that particular amenity.

 

[scarpfish]

I agree, there would be a drop off in attendance. This is a difficult to solve, we need more money in the sport but at the same time we don't want to undermine our base of disc golf supporters who play because it is inexpensive. Tough...maybe significantly increase the costs for A-tiers and up.

Many of the same people who play B & C tiers also play A tiers. Significantly increase the cost to play in one just so you can have officials and a lot of those folks will stay home. These are the fish that the sharks (the top pros) depend on being there to make their income. When the effort to correct a small problem creates an even bigger problem, that's not a solution.

I agree, there would be a drop off in attendance. But you would think that everyone would even support an increase to pay for some marshalls on a B tier depending on how many open players there, I've been to B tiers where there less than 6 players.

Read the red text and then the blue text and then connect the logic. If there is a drop off in attendance, there won't be an everyone to pay for something that is only of use to a select few.

Some of you are going to need to realize that like a lot of other issues with our sport, idealism in rules enforcement becomes cost prohibitive when it approaches reality.

 

[Thumber]

comprehensive video replay is the only solution. Multiple blimps and 50-70 cameras per tournament

results analyzed and released within 60 days of the event.