Surrounded by water

[txmxer]

It's summer and our creeks are drying up. Many times an island will form in a creek bed, but be surrounded by water. The island might be roughly the size of a disc or might be much larger (say 10' x 4') roughly speaking--but an area where one could clearly take a stance. The TD says "surrounded by water is OB", or if the creek bed is dry, play it where it lies.

In the case of smallish islands, that are completely surrounded by water but may or may not be adequate to take a stance, what is the ruling? OB?

For the small island, I would think free relief on the line of play away from the basket would apply.

For a larger island, I would think play it where it lies applies under the above mentioned TD guidance.

Thoughts?

 

[roblee]

If you mix a small island & a larger island you get a conundrum.

 

[wolfhaley]

Ask the TD.

I've never played a tournament. Reading these forums solidifies that Every. Single. Day.

Sound's awful to me.

 

[wolfhaley]

If you mix a small island & a larger island you get a conundrum.

Nope. That's a medium island. Now if it was an islet?

 

[biscoe]

It's summer and our creeks are drying up. Many times an island will form in a creek bed, but be surrounded by water. The island might be roughly the size of a disc or might be much larger (say 10' x 4') roughly speaking--but an area where one could clearly take a stance. The TD says "surrounded by water is OB", or if the creek bed is dry, play it where it lies.

In the case of smallish islands, that are completely surrounded by water but may or may not be adequate to take a stance, what is the ruling? OB?

For the small island, I would think free relief on the line of play away from the basket would apply.

For a larger island, I would think play it where it lies applies under the above mentioned TD guidance.

Thoughts?

Surrounded by water= literally the definition of island= OB- both cases. Whether or not it is big enough to take a stance is irrelevant.

 

[foxdawg10]

It's summer and our creeks are drying up. Many times an island will form in a creek bed, but be surrounded by water. The island might be roughly the size of a disc or might be much larger (say 10' x 4') roughly speaking--but an area where one could clearly take a stance. The TD says "surrounded by water is OB", or if the creek bed is dry, play it where it lies.

In the case of smallish islands, that are completely surrounded by water but may or may not be adequate to take a stance, what is the ruling? OB?

For the small island, I would think free relief on the line of play away from the basket would apply.

For a larger island, I would think play it where it lies applies under the above mentioned TD guidance.

Thoughts?

OB.

It is a stretch to call something the size of a disc an "island".

 

[txmxer]

Surrounded by water= literally the definition of island= OB- both cases. Whether or not it is big enough to take a stance is irrelevant.

I'm okay with that if that is how everyone else sees it. Mainly why I asked.

 

[txmxer]

OB.

It is a stretch to call something the size of a disc an "island".

But, is it stretch to call something the size of an elephant an island?

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm okay with that if that is how everyone else sees it. Mainly why I asked.

I can't speak for everyone, but it's the only way I've ever seen it called.

We define creeks as OB, and specify that we mean the water, not the creek bed. So each shore of creek marks the OB line (vertical plane), and that would incorporate everything within. If we had a creek with a permanent island we wanted to exempt, we'd specify it.

 

[DavidSauls]

...though we have run into an issue, on a hole where we declare "creek and beyond" to be OB, when some parts of the creek dry up. For events, we flag that part of the creek; casually, we take our best guess.

Most of the creeks on our course are spring-fed and flow, even if just a little, through the worst of droughts.

As a sidebar, water in creeks isn't the most precise boundary, and it would always be better to flag or rope them for tournaments, for better definition. However, that's not always practical.

 

[foxdawg10]

But, is it stretch to call something the size of an elephant an island?

Dunno, lol. Maybe you can try calling it Elephant Island and see what happens.

I actually had this question last month in a Flex start C-Tier local tourney.

The caddy book said "surrounded by water on hole 7", which had a narrow creek running along side the fairway.

My disc landed in the confines of the creek on top of a dry rock. The group agreed that it was surrounded by water, and the TD confirmed.

It is really up to the TD. "Surrounded by water" is somewhat vague. Ideally they should flag or paint all OB, but this was a small Flex C-Tier, and he and his 4 Co-TD's were already spending 12 hours at the park accommadating the 155 players cycling through.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It may be hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, but...

Every continent is surrounded by water.
∴ Every lie is surrounded by water.

Feel free to discuss/debate.
opcorn:

 

[txmxer]

tough crowd.

For the event on Sunday there were holes that crossed the creek perpendicular and holes that followed the creek. They painted a line on one side or the other of the creek to separate holes that paralleled the creek, but where the creek bed was dry it was in bounds depending on which side the line was painted. This is truly a runoff creek. It's dry 90% of the time, with the possibility of small areas of standing water.

Surrounded by water meant to me that the disc was in and physically touching water on all sides. A couple of years ago, I was playing a non-sanctioned club championship tournament at bicentennial and we had the same basic instruction. If it's "surrounded by water" (in the water) it's OB. I landed on an island in the creek bed, asked my card mates the proper call. They said it was not OB since it was dry. That might have been a mercy ruling since I was way out of contention, but regardless, that was the call that was made.

 

[txmxer]

Ask the TD.

I've never played a tournament. Reading these forums solidifies that Every. Single. Day.

Sound's awful to me.

You should stop reading them since it gives you such pain.

 

[roblee]

I think the island, log, root question of water OB is a common question when learning the sport. It sure was in my community. I was flummoxed by the myriad was I was being punished.

 

[foxdawg10]

It may be hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, but...

Every continent is surrounded by water.
∴ Every lie is surrounded by water.

Feel free to discuss/debate.
opcorn:

I hate to admit it, but this was my thought exactly when I first read the post.

 

[Innova63]

It may be hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, but...

Every continent is surrounded by water.
∴ Every lie is surrounded by water.

Feel free to discuss/debate.
opcorn:

I hate to admit it, but this was my thought exactly when I first read the post.

Same thought crossed my mind...

 

[Rastnav]

tough crowd.

For the event on Sunday there were holes that crossed the creek perpendicular and holes that followed the creek. They painted a line on one side or the other of the creek to separate holes that paralleled the creek, but where the creek bed was dry it was in bounds depending on which side the line was painted. This is truly a runoff creek. It's dry 90% of the time, with the possibility of small areas of standing water.

I have to say, this seems like a poorly designed layout. Unless the small areas of water were somehow significantly placed, that is seemingly random punishment for no real good reason.

Surrounded by water meant to me that the disc was in and physically touching water on all sides. A couple of years ago, I was playing a non-sanctioned club championship tournament at bicentennial and we had the same basic instruction. If it's "surrounded by water" (in the water) it's OB. I landed on an island in the creek bed, asked my card mates the proper call. They said it was not OB since it was dry. That might have been a mercy ruling since I was way out of contention, but regardless, that was the call that was made.

I think the proper way to think of "surrounded by water" is that the edges of the water in the creek, where they touch the bank, define the OB line that would be painted if they were creating the OB "artificially". That doesn't really make sense for a dry creek bed that only has occasional pools of water, but if we think of those pools as ponds/lakes, the same principle applies. Probably.

Like I said, I don't think that rule for OB makes a whole lot of sense if you've got a creek bed that only occasionally contains water. Just treat it all as casual, IMO. But that's a different issue, I guess.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I hate to admit it, but this was my thought exactly when I first read the post.

Same thought crossed my mind...

< starts new career as a social media influencer

 

[BogeyNoMore]

IMHO:

If the creek is OB, any island in the creek should be considered OB, unless the island is an intended landing spot.

The determination of whether a lie is is OB or safe shouldn't depend on the water level (e.g. area's seen a lot of rain that week, or is experiencing a drought)..

If the creek crosses the fairway: TD should declare the entire creek/creek bed OB.

If the creek runs roughly parallel to the fairway, the near edge of the creek should be declared OB.

Better still to mark with a chalk/flour line or rope.