The anti-"wide-rimmed driver" thread.

[jubuttib]

There are only a few wide rimmed discs that I'd consider throwing in heavy headwinds. I'd rather go with a slower structurally overstable disc than a faster speed overstable disc in those conditions.

 

[Marmoset]

There are only a few wide rimmed discs that I'd consider throwing in heavy headwinds. I'd rather go with a slower structurally overstable disc than a faster speed overstable disc in those conditions.

... and something that is less nose angle sensitive so I can make sure I get the nose down. *In general* the slower the disc is the less nose angle sensitive it is.

30mph and 500'?
I'm probably throwing a FB or QOLF depending on the wind direction.

 

[walker1]

30mph and 500'? I'm probably throwing my bag.

 

[JR]

The faster the disc the less the cruising speed is exceeded in head wind situations. One great straightish but still with reliable fade disc for head winds of 30 MPH and over for a 400' thrower is a Discraft Force. It doesn't suffer from the Innova L wing typical speed sensitivity where a disc may be a pig in calm weather and flippy in headwinds. For a 400' thrower Force is usable in calm situations on for s-curves and hyzers that aren't that much shorter than max D discs on max D lines. And no worries about gusts. That's respectable for a seaside dweller.

 

[discspeed]

The faster the disc the less the cruising speed is exceeded in head wind situations. One great straightish but still with reliable fade disc for head winds of 30 MPH and over for a 400' thrower is a Discraft Force. It doesn't suffer from the Innova L wing typical speed sensitivity where a disc may be a pig in calm weather and flippy in headwinds. For a 400' thrower Force is usable in calm situations on for s-curves and hyzers that aren't that much shorter than max D discs on max D lines. And no worries about gusts. That's respectable for a seaside dweller.

I've had Forces fail on me in less wind than that...If you look at it, it IS more or less an L type wing. For example there is a guy I play with who is truly a "young gun". He can crush, but can't lay off to save his life. Anyway, he's got the kind of freak power that can get a Predator to 500'. He uses Forces for max D in normal conditions (and his Pred in the type of winds we're talking about). He had a brand new Z Force that was flying like a Valkyrie under his power, going 500'+. He let me throw it and I put it a little over 400' with my hardest throw, and it got zero high speed turn...So at my speed it was like a faster FL, but at his speed it was like a Valkyrie. So yes, the Force is a better choice than most for a headwind D driver, but only marginally. Nothing but skill and luck gets you good D in a 30mph headwind. I would either throw my most overstable Boss very smooth--all snap, no reachback if it was fairly open and the exact flight line wasn't that important, or I would grab my C-PD and preserve a perfect flight line while sacrificing some D.

 

[JR]

I've left two starlight Bosses on the hole at Järva Sweden that was in the Disc Golf Sweden promo the downhill. Although I was throwing from the long tee that is higher and gets more wind action from the left. Every time I've played there the wind came hard from the left and the tee was by a hill shielding me from the wind and the Bosses got rape flipped and disappeared far right into vegetation. The Bosses looked like someone used them for skeet practice because of the immediate and 30 degree flip from hyzer to anny. That's disheartening.

At full power in 15 MPH head wind a few days ago my Z 174 Force released flat didn't flip at all and faded too much. I've ran into conditions where my 168 ESP Force needed 3-4 degrees of initial hyzer to flip to flat and then went far with minimal fade.

I showed hwicha and other Russian players competing with me at Tali, Helsinki, Finland in monster headwinds what speed stable means with a Boss. Another starlite 168. The little bitch flipped immediately and landed as a roller about 60' in front of the tee. The headwinds were over 35 MPH at the time. I've played in similar conditions only once when I needed to throw at full power into as bad a head wind. That 3 degree hyzer flattened the ESP 168 Force and it just bounced up and down moving straight forward no sweat. I've had Bosses die on me with less wind. I don't flip Bosses one degree in calm conditions so it's not a mismatch between me and the Boss either. Both are good discs in mild winds but I don't trust Bosses at all compared to Forces in moderate or fast winds. It is a night and day difference for me in favor of the Force. Star 175 Boss ain't a bit better than Starlights in 168 in a head wind.

No sir I don't like it. The Boss in winds.

I don't know how extreme the differences are for you but at my power level Bosses are like Kites in the wind compared to my Forces. I'd think that Forces aren't that different from each other. I hope so.

 

[discspeed]

You were throwing Bosses in the 160s into a headwind...Need I say anything more? I've messed with Starlights too, and they are VERY squirrely in the wind. Heavy discs are more steady in the wind. I don't know any top pros (Climo, Feldberg, Avery, Nikko, Barry, etc, etc) that throw any 160s into the wind...They all use max weight like it's a no brainer. In fact, these guys all agreed that the Starlights were not predictable in wind despite their stability in normal conditions. I've got heavy Bosses that are stable (believe me, I know many of them are not). It is much easier to keep a 175g disc low and penetrating forward than lighter discs. It's still tricky, but they better for me than anything else. Like I said though, I throw them with all snap and no reachback. Bosses are VERY overstable for me when I snap them without strong arming them. Now if I were playing somewhere when I expected the wind could drastically change down the fairway, I would throw something slower and more stable (C-PD).

I also play on flat land, so it's easy to keep your disc close to the ground the whole flight in a headwind. I've had a lot of experience playing on ball golf courses near the coast where it is very open, flat, and windy. These are the situations where I've gotten my best wind testing done.

 

[krik72]

When I was throwing about 350' with no snap just muscling it, I could throw my 175 I-Dye Champ into a 30 mph headwind and it would fly very overstable. Ive thrown the understable bosses too, a lot has to do with the plastic. Slicker plastic does really well into headwinds in my experience (I-Dye Champ > Champ > Star > Pro > DX)

 

[HeartlessCynic]

I originally bought a Force just for skip shots and headwinds. It has taken over so much more duty than that since winter when I picked up the mold. The Force has become one of my favorite molds

 

[chilidogg]

I bet one of them wide rimmed warp speed bastages wins $25k from Discraft :wink:

 

[Jesse B 707]

I bet one of them wide rimmed warp speed bastages wins $25k from Discraft :wink:

bet not.......although the nuke does have a chance id probly bet on the Surge breaking that record before the Nuke.....and i doubt either will do it this year

 

[Frank Delicious]

R pro boss has the best chance, maybe a light pro destroyer.

 

[Jesse B 707]

But those don't get you 25 g's

 

[jubuttib]

You were throwing Bosses in the 160s into a headwind...Need I say anything more? I've messed with Starlights too, and they are VERY squirrely in the wind.

Funny, judging by Dave D's posts the Starlights should have been the most overstable Bosses out there...

 

[discspeed]

I bet one of them wide rimmed warp speed bastages wins $25k from Discraft :wink:

bet not.......although the nuke does have a chance id probly bet on the Surge breaking that record before the Nuke.....and i doubt either will do it this year

I think the Flash has the best shot. I've thrown and seen longer freak throws with a Flash than anything else from Discraft. FR Surges could possibly, but since the FR I just don't see them going that far.

 

[discspeed]

You were throwing Bosses in the 160s into a headwind...Need I say anything more? I've messed with Starlights too, and they are VERY squirrely in the wind.

Funny, judging by Dave D's posts the Starlights should have been the most overstable Bosses out there...

Dave doesn't have the arm he used to. I'm not sure any of his old school Innova buddies that he tests with have real big arms either. Last year I was practicing one day with Aleksey Bubis (who aced a 480' shot across water, with no elevation change with a max weight DF Champ Boss in competition) and we both had a bunch of discs to test out including Star Bosses of various weights. He had a couple of Starlights...Anyway, we were throwing into a fairly strong headwind and I mentioned that he should try the lighter Bosses as Dave D. had said they were the most stable. The first one he put too much hyzer on and it actually didn't even flip to flat. The next throw he put a little less hyzer and it flipped into a roller. This continued as we practiced...There was VERY LITTLE "sweet spot" in the discs flight. It either was hyzer all the way or flipping like a bitch (either way getting pushed by the wind and earning very weak D)...there was no flat flight into that wind. Interestingly enough, his best disc into those headwinds was a yellow Star Destroyer that has some serious HSS. He's still got it in his bag as he still has not found another one that stable.

 

[JR]

You were throwing Bosses in the 160s into a headwind...Need I say anything more? I've messed with Starlights too, and they are VERY squirrely in the wind.

Funny, judging by Dave D's posts the Starlights should have been the most overstable Bosses out there...

Dave doesn't have the arm he used to. I'm not sure any of his old school Innova buddies that he tests with have real big arms either. Last year I was practicing one day with Aleksey Bubis (who aced a 480' shot across water, with no elevation change with a max weight DF Champ Boss in competition) and we both had a bunch of discs to test out including Star Bosses of various weights. He had a couple of Starlights...Anyway, we were throwing into a fairly strong headwind and I mentioned that he should try the lighter Bosses as Dave D. had said they were the most stable. The first one he put too much hyzer on and it actually didn't even flip to flat. The next throw he put a little less hyzer and it flipped into a roller. This continued as we practiced...There was VERY LITTLE "sweet spot" in the discs flight. It either was hyzer all the way or flipping like a bitch (either way getting pushed by the wind and earning very weak D)...there was no flat flight into that wind. Interestingly enough, his best disc into those headwinds was a yellow Star Destroyer that has some serious HSS. He's still got it in his bag as he still has not found another one that stable.

In calm weather Starlight are more HSS than regular Bosses. Ville Piippo uses at elast some more HSS than regular yellow Champ Bosses. My Star Boss 175 was less HSS than Starlights in calm conditions and flipped even worse than the Starlights in winds. So based on the probably regular flying Bosses Starlight and not Dave D. was right.

One of the Innova test throwers is Feldy and he can get way past 500'. He said they send everything they try to him for evaluation. He should have more than enough power to determine how a disc really flies giving Dave D. good feedback on higher powered shots. I handled one of Daves champystar Boss protos but didn't buy it because it would be nigh impossible and expensive to get a replacement. Everything wears and I have lost discs. I don't throw Bosses in winter time and I still lose discs even without the snow.

The Starlights I lost at Järva flew nicely hyzered in anticipation of the hill to not shield from the wind and once the wind hit goodbye.