[Innova] why throw dx plastic?

[Magic Mamba]

Lots of great answers here and in older threads on this same topic. Here's my thoughts:

DX has great grip in all weather, especially the recent runs.

DX wears predictably, and not as fast as it sometimes is made to appear. Yes, DX starts more overstable than flight #'s suggest, but wears in and holds its sweet spot for so long.

DX allows people to cheaply - more on that below - carry lots of copies of a single mold in different levels of wear to cover a whole plethora of shots. Eagles, Rocs, and putters are the best examples of this.

Lots of popular, older molds were originally designed for DX. Hence they don't fly as well in a more premium plastics.

DX discs have more glide as compared to a more premium counterpart. There is an anecdote on here somewhere that one pro doesn't throw DX Teebirds because they are too long - he always overshoots.

DX is cheaper - two DX is one champ or star of the same disc.

I prefer DX Teebirds - cheap and easily seasoned, they hold their HSS and fly straight forever, both in distance and time. Who doesn't have room in their bag for a disc that flies straight? Rocs are also nice for this, but I love Comets more.

When wouldn't I want DX? I prefer pro-plastic putters as a good balance of softness and grip. I like my stupidly overstable discs to stay that predictably, and those are discs I don't need multiple copies of. Finally, I wouldn't want DX when I was throwing a warp-speed driver or something that wasn't designed with DX in mind. Because I don't throw anything over a speed 9 (Firebird) with any regularity, this isn't a problem. If I played in a more wooded area, I would probably prefer a star-type plastic for my fairway drivers and likely throw X Comets less (and Z Comets more).

I have a DX Teebird and it's easily my favorite disc in the bag! It flies so straight and is super consistant!

 

[bhadella]

I think cycling is helpful to fill in slots of my bag without having tons of different molds.

I use:

Putting Putters - Base Plastic (DX P&A Aviar)
Driving Putters and Midranges - Medium Plastic (KC Aviars, KC Rocs)
Fairway & Distance Drivers - Premium Plastics (ESP FLX Drone, Pro Leopard, Star Leopard, Star TL, Champ Teebird)
Distance Drivers - Premium Plastics (S PD, Champ Orc, Star Wraith, Blizzard Boss)

I play approximately 5 rounds a week. I rotate a dozen putting putters between practice purposes and my bag so I have an near infinite supply. My KCs last 3-4 months before I need to add a new one to bag. Star discs last 1 year before their morph into a different stability/flight path, Champs last till I lose them.

 

[martinb]

Disc in lower end plastics tend to be easier to control than discs in higher end plastics, too. So when you're learning to shape lines you'll have a lot easier time if you use low end plastic discs, especially ones that have been beat up a bit. They also get longer as they beat up, so you end up with a longer disc that's easier to control. The only players that don't really need that are the super experienced ones.

agree to the end of your diatribe....when accuracy and consistency are more important than distance...... dx will give you an advantage over other type plastics...midrange and putters.....and any "super experienced" player will take any advantage they can get.

 

[garublador]

And, It is nice to have three DX eagles, at three stats of wear that behave like 3 different, yet useful discs.

Something else that's nice about that is while they do act differently, they don't act drastically differently. If you make a minor error and throw the wrong one for the shot you want to accomplish you'll probably end up 30' off. If you throw the wrong mold for the shot you want you'll be lucky if you only end up 30' off. For someone with great disc selection skills that isn't a big deal. For the rest of us it's a really nice safety net.

 

[rocthecourse]

DX sticks to the chains better than premium plastic.

 

[Crazy Runner Guy]

Can you, or anyone, explain to me the benefit to learning disc wear? I sort of get it, that as it wears, I learn I have add progressively more and more hyzer to it to get it to fly like it once did. I just don't get, as a relatively new player, how that's benefitial.

Sure thing.

Unless you're always buying premium discs, the flight of your discs are going to change regardless of what you do with your form. Yes, people who have inconsistent form, as noted above, will have their discs' flight change and that's a case of archer over arrow. But the more you throw, the more consistent your form - good or bad - becomes. That drops flight changes caused by variable forms out of the equation.

DX discs wear fairly evenly and consistently. Once they hit that sweet spot, they tend to stay there for a long time before become permanently used only for rollers or useless all together.

It's not necessarily about adding more and more hyzer as a disc wears from overstable to stable to understable. Yes, that will help you get nice hyzer flats/flips and allow you to do sweeping S curves with discs, but discs do different things as they wear.

The best example is probably to compare/contrast Teebirds (or Rocs) and Eagles (or Cyclones).

Teebirds/Rocs: These two discs maintain their high-speed stability/turn resistance as they wear while losing lose-speed stability/fade. End result? A disc that goes dead straight with little to no fade. The higher the flight the more fade you'll get, but there is a sweet spot maybe 15 to 20 or 25 feet high where the disc will drop straight out of the sky and not off to the left.

I have found that Rhynos do the same thing - hold HSS and lose LSS.

Eagles/Cyclones: These two discs do the exact opposite as Teebirds and Rocs, that is they lose high-speed stability/turn resistance while maintaining their hefty low-speed stability/fade. End result? A disc that will do huge S curves and always finishes left, whether left of your target line if thrown with a little hyzer or straight away if thrown flat.

Now, I prefer Eagles to Cyclones because the former have more HSS and therefore are better wind discs even when beat, but that's another topic for another day.

Understanding wear allows you have multiples of one mold cover more shots than a single disc of that same mold will allow you to cover. Yes, it is mostly related to discing down and mold minimalism, but it doesn't have to be. The Eagle/Cyclone flight pattern is something you're not going to find in understable discs very often, if ever. As a disc is designed to be less HSS and gain more turn, it tends to lose fade. But Eagles/Cyclones gain turn and retain their fade.

Also, because DX discs wear consistently, you can have a disc you're seasoning and one that is seasoned in the bag. This allows you to have backups and rotate between the two ready to go if you lose one or taco one beyond belief mid-round.

I'm rambling and have other thoughts, but I hope that explains. it.

 

[McJesus]

I was wondering why dx glides better than other plastics? I was hyzerflipping a dx teebird out to 375' yesterday and usually can only get it's star plastic counterpart out to 340'.

 

[theabacus]

I used to only throw premium plastic. Then I re-discovered the magic of DX. Nothing flies better than a perfectly beat-in disc...

 

[Smigles]

Because they hit the sweet spot faster and fly longer than most premium plastics. I could be wrong though.

Funny, I buy my discs at the sweet spot and in premium plastic in the hope that they keep at the sweet spot as long as possible.

But that is madness, right ?

 

[jtreadwell]

I was wondering why dx glides better than other plastics? I was hyzerflipping a dx teebird out to 375' yesterday and usually can only get it's star plastic counterpart out to 340'.

I could be pulling this out of my butt, but I swear I've read and heard that it has something to do with the fact that the surface of a DX/base disc is more prone to obtaining pits, scratches, and other blemishes. The theory is that the damage has a similar effect to the dimples on a golf ball which affect the way the wind interacts with the disc/ball. Again, THIS IS ONLY WHAT I'VE HEARD and should be verified by someone more familiar with disc physics before being taken as a factual contribution. Am I way off here guys?

 

[Magshad]

For me, certain DX molds when beat in will fly exactly how I want... not the way it was intended when it was designed, example... a beat Dx Wraith for me will fly very understable and break right exactly how I want, one of my favorite discs.

 

[HiFi]

You can buy a cheap stack of practice putters, and personally I like the DX plastic for putters. Other than that I will never use it again. DX gouges too easily.

I will replace 2 or 3 DX discs before I will beat a Champion to death, maybe more. For me the extra cost of premium plastic for my drivers and mids is well worth the price of admission.

 

[PhillyMatt]

I'd feel like a sell out of I took my dx gazelle out of my bag. It's the disc that made me. It deserves respect.

I also throw a dx valk, a old max weight one for thumbers. and i guess 4 chains magnets would be considered dx type plastic

everything else is pro, kc pro, z, etc etc

 

[sonny]

I was wondering why dx glides better than other plastics? I was hyzerflipping a dx teebird out to 375' yesterday and usually can only get it's star plastic counterpart out to 340'.

My working hypothesis is the plastic density. DX plastic is less dense so it floats through the air better. Pro plastic is next in glide because it's still not as dense a material as Star. Champ gets the least glide 'cause it's the chunkiest stuff.

 

[HiFi]

The density of a given plastic is entirely dependent on how much of the weight increasing agents they use. Heavier discs are denser that lighter, assuming the same shape.

In other words if you take two discs of different plastics, use the same mold, and the discs weight the same amount, their densities will be equal. It's the same amount of weight distributed among the same shape.

Glide has almost nothing to do with plastic, it's almost entirely in the shape. The only real variable would be how much friction each plastic causes as it flies, which I really have to assume is negligible if not non-existent.

 

[mashnut]

The density of a given plastic is entirely dependent on how much of the weight increasing agents they use. Heavier discs are denser that lighter, assuming the same shape.

In other words if you take two discs of different plastics, use the same mold, and the discs weight the same amount, their densities will be equal. It's the same amount of weight distributed among the same shape.

Glide has almost nothing to do with plastic, it's almost entirely in the shape. The only real variable would be how much friction each plastic causes as it flies, which I really have to assume is negligible if not non-existent.

I agree with your first two paragraphs, but the last one is not true. There are very clear differences in stability and glide between different plastics.

 

[McJesus]

So there is no general consensus to my original question. I'm gonna guess it has to do with the density of the plastic and maybe the surface of the dx disc and it's interaction with air at high speeds? Remember I'm asking specifically about glide

 

[DanJon]

Champ is slick. DX is rougher. More resistance.

 

[HiFi]

I agree with your first two paragraphs, but the last one is not true. There are very clear differences in stability and glide between different plastics.

For instance, Pro Destroyers have more glide than Star. I think we can all agree to that. But I think we would also agree that the shape of these two discs are different as well.

It is impossible to test since different plastics are going to settle into a different shape than others during cooling, and I wouldn't be surprised if they used different molds for each to try to compensate for that.

So, maybe you could add stiffness to the very short list of variables, but I really really really doubt that the difference in air drag between champion and pro is enough to perceivably affect it's flight.

 

[garublador]

For instance, Pro Destroyers have more glide than Star. I think we can all agree to that. But I think we would also agree that the shape of these two discs are different as well.

That's my understanding as well. Higher end plastic discs tend to shape up more "true" to the mold with sharper transitions and lower end plastics tend to "puff out" more.

It is impossible to test since different plastics are going to settle into a different shape than others during cooling, and I wouldn't be surprised if they used different molds for each to try to compensate for that.

I'd actually be very surprised if they had different molds for different plastics. Innova did have different molds to try to compensate, but they named them different (eventually), too. The TL is an example of them changing the mold to try to compensate for the differences in how the plastics cool.

So, maybe you could add stiffness to the very short list of variables, but I really really really doubt that the difference in air drag between champion and pro is enough to perceivably affect it's flight.

I'm with you on that. It probably has some effect, but it's almost negligible compared to the differences you see in shape.

It's also worth pointing out that the different plastics beat up differently, so their shapes will be even more different once the discs get beat in at all. For example, a new DX Teebird isn't actually all that different from a new Champ, assuming they both mold up "right." However, a beat DX Teebird is quite a bit different form a beat Champ, especially when you look at glide.