[Question] Potential tech standards changes?

[zgmc]

Good points. Since the courses where I live, are basically devoid of any non-disc golf traffic, I didn't even think about courses in public parks, where someone out for a run, or a picnic, could potentially be struck by a disc.

 

[Halcón]

Good points. Since the courses where I live, are basically devoid of any non-disc golf traffic, I didn't even think about courses in public parks, where someone out for a run, or a picnic, could potentially be struck by a disc.

This is a key statement, and one that Paul McBeth alluded to a few pages ago:

people pay to go WATCH those events so they are there at their own risk and should be paying attention. Kids and families at parks aren't there to watch disc golf they have a rigt to the park just as much as disc golfers.... i guess you need to visit SoCal courses to understand.

I've just recently played Huntington, where he grew up, and the courses where I play are the same; in multi-use public parks. I've never played a round of local disc golf where I didn't see more non-disc golfers than disc golfers. (Huntington may have been a 50-50 split)

If the courses you play aren't like this, it's hard for you to see the potential risks involved.

 

[biscoe]

Yep- Irresponsible course design in public parks stands the potential to do more damage to the game than any other single factor.
A couple of years ago i designed a course in a beautiful public park with TONS of other activities. it was the most difficult design i have ever done due to the myriad safety restrictions. After a lot of work we came up with a design which was playable and safe but left out a lot of the park's most desirable property for disc golf as it was already used for other activities. Within a period of months local disc golfers had gotten the park manager to allow them to redesign the darn thing over top of many of the things i was trying very hard to avoid in the name of having a "world class" course. Now imo it is merely a matter of time before a fisherman or horseback rider gets beaned with a katana. At that point who knows what will occur? The worst case scenario is considerable.

I'm done designing courses in public parks.

 

[turbosteve]

The PDGA has not set standards for course design because they are concerned that it will open them up to liability. Unfortunately not having any set of standards is worse in my opinion because it allows extremely unsafe courses to go in. I also think that having groups of players throw on other groups of players is going to be a huge safety concern in years to come.

 

[Three Putt]

The PDGA has not set standards for course design because they are concerned that it will open them up to liability. Unfortunately not having any set of standards is worse in my opinion because it allows extremely unsafe courses to go in. I also think that having groups of players throw on other groups of players is going to be a huge safety concern in years to come.

It's the "head in the sand" approach.

 

[mashnut]

It also is an area where they couldn't actually enforce any of it. So many of the crappy courses out there are put in by people who wouldn't read those guidelines even if they did exist.

 

[Halcón]

It's the "head in the sand" approach.

There's a saying in Spanish that can be applied here. It goes, "After the boy drowns, they cover the well."

I hope what we're seeing here, and in discussions like at that PDGA meeting, are steps toward preventing the boy from "drowning."

 

[turbosteve]

It also is an area where they couldn't actually enforce any of it. So many of the crappy courses out there are put in by people who wouldn't read those guidelines even if they did exist.

Most disc golf courses are put in by parks departments who might get sued if bystanders are hit by a disc. Parks departments would try to make sure the courses meet safety standards so that they will not get sued.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I get upset over it.

That isn't the point, the point is speaking or writing in a community about disc golf where gay people, women, people of any race, or people who have loved ones with disabilities means using your brain before you post. "Retarded" or "gay" are well known to be offensive in the way used and the way you used, which is simply not a very cool thing.

To say I'm not using my brain is well know to be offensive in the way used. You don't seem concerned.

I, evidently, was away when that word I should not type became taboo. Evidently this is common knowledge that I should be aware of, and now am. I am sorry if I've upset anyone. That was not my intent. I simply meant my hole would react to the slippery slope of this rule like fire would react to this.

The game thrived with Rocs as drivers. It could do it again, if necessary.

We ain't talkin' 'bout the game! I'm talking about courses designed with high speed drivers in mind. To paraphrase someone wiser than I, high speed drivers fly like a bullet, teebirds and such fly like kites. Right now, if your course doesn't mesh with anything faster than a teebird, can't you just make everyone play with teebird or slower and still have your pdga sanctioning? But if my course depends on the high speed stuff, I won't be able to allow the high speed stuff and get sanctioning, right?

The destroyer would be banned under the proposal so...

And Innova's discs really get good when you go slower than the destroyer. That and the Xcal are the only good ones speed 12. Both overstable. At speed 11, you still have a Max and Wraith, but you also have the Archon and Mamba that have been fairly well received. Any slower, and it's really getting in to innova's wheel house.

 

[mashnut]

Most disc golf courses are put in by parks departments who might get sued if bystanders are hit by a disc. Parks departments would try to make sure the courses meet safety standards so that they will not get sued.

If that was the case, those parks departments would actually bring in a consultant who knows how to mitigate safety concerns like they do with many other equipment installations. Right now, a disc golf course is seen as something any parks employee or anyone who's ever picked up a beach frisbee can design, there's just no understanding of the potential safety issues at the parks department level (yet).

 

[Halcón]

We ain't talkin' 'bout the game! I'm talking about courses designed with high speed drivers in mind. To paraphrase someone wiser than I, high speed drivers fly like a bullet, teebirds and such fly like kites. Right now, if your course doesn't mesh with anything faster than a teebird, can't you just make everyone play with teebird or slower and still have your pdga sanctioning? But if my course depends on the high speed stuff, I won't be able to allow the high speed stuff and get sanctioning, right?

Woah, no need to get your undies all bunched up. Besides, there's no such thing as a course that "depends" on anything. All you're talking about is adding a couple strokes per round if "warp speed" drivers are eliminated. No biggie. Let's not sweat the small stuff. Your course, the players, and everything else will be just fine.

 

[Three Putt]

If that was the case, those parks departments would actually bring in a consultant who knows how to mitigate safety concerns like they do with many other equipment installations. Right now, a disc golf course is seen as something any parks employee or anyone who's ever picked up a beach frisbee can design, there's just no understanding of the potential safety issues at the parks department level (yet).

This is the truth. Disc golf went on a DIY path, bypassing parks and recreation to run its own events through local clubs. By doing that, you removed disc golf from anything a parks and recreation professional needed to know about. It is by design; we don't want the local parks and rec department to know how to compete with our local clubs. We want to control programming for ourselves. Because of the exclusion and because the courses are generating no income, there is no reason for a parks and recreation professional to take any sort of interest in disc golf. There is a huge knowledge gap about disc golf in the parks and recreation profession, but it is important to understand that we created and encourage that knowledge gap.

The knowledge gap allows parks departments to buy into the myth that disc golf is fine in multi-use areas and OK disc golf courses in spots that they should not. Again, that has so far worked in our favor as we have thousands of disc golf holes installed in places that no one with a proper parks and recreation risk management background and understanding of disc golf would allow. It has helped the game grow.

At the same time, it's a liability time bomb embedded in the foundation of our sport. If it would ever go off, the effects would be devastating. Nobody really likes to talk about it, because it would set disc golf back badly.

Is the bomb ticking? I have no idea. You know who would? I think a company who makes around 70% of the golf discs and a large % of the target baskets would know. A company like that would get named in a lawsuit or two, don't you think? If Innova started to seem concerned that the bomb was ticking, I'd pay attention.

 

[Halcón]

I think I'm starting to get a man-crush on Three Putt.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Woah, no need to get your undies all bunched up. Besides, there's no such thing as a course that "depends" on anything. All you're talking about is adding a couple strokes per round if "warp speed" drivers are eliminated. No biggie. Let's not sweat the small stuff. Your course, the players, and everything else will be just fine.

Just doing my Iverson.

I thought it was brought up that courses were being ruined by high speed drivers making it too easy to park. One hole I have is predicated on a drive off the tee that you have to keep low, but get out as far as you can. It's probably a 250-300' shot to clear the trees and have a reasonable second shot. I could do it with a blunt edged disc, but a lot of people couldn't.

Also, a reminder that I'm talking about the slippery slope where all "sharp rimmed discs" are illegal. I don't know what the diameter or rim width really has to do with safety, so if safety is the driving force, that seems like a logical place to go from there.

Could we do a disc classification and then make certain classes un-useable on courses. Like a tb is a "blue-level" disc, roc "red", boss "gold" and pitch and putts in multi-use areas are "red-level" courses?
Then if you hurt someone with a gold disc on a red course it's on you, not innova or p&r.

 

[Halcón]

Could we do a disc classification and then make certain classes un-useable on courses. Like a tb is a "blue-level" disc, roc "red", boss "gold" and pitch and putts in multi-use areas are "red-level" courses?

Seems too complicated. And tough to enforce.

 

[mashnut]

Forget enforcing it, how many chuckers (with only one disc that happens to be a high speed driver) would read the signs informing them of that standard or care?

 

[Three Putt]

Back in the 90's pro players used to come to me at White Birch all the time wanting me to designate it a "putter only" course to force people to use the correct disc. My question then: Who exactly is going to enforce it, and what exactly do you propose to do to people who ignore it?

Judge: Next case. What do we have?

Prosecutor: Your honor, we have a citation for throwing a Viper at White Birch.

Judge: A Viper? Damn, son. I shot -14 there with just an Aviar. What were you thinking?

 

[Tee1]

There are some very good points being made in this thread. I see it as more of a course design issue as opposed to a disc issue. Would getting hit with a max weight Champ Ape hurt someone more than a Champ Teebird? In the end someone is still getting hit with a disc and the rim width doesn't make that big a difference. It should start with courses designed so that there is a small a chance as possible for a person to get hit with an errant throw.

 

[mashnut]

There are some very good points being made in this thread. I see it as more of a course design issue as opposed to a disc issue. Would getting hit with a max weight Champ Ape hurt someone more than a Champ Teebird? In the end someone is still getting hit with a disc and the rim width doesn't make that big a difference. It should start with courses designed so that there is a small a chance as possible for a person to get hit with an errant throw.

I don't disagree, but that ignores the fact that a high speed driver continues moving at a higher speed a ways off the tee, and is more likely to go farther and more off course than a slower, more controllable disc.

 

[dashiellx]

The game thrived with Rocs as drivers. It could do it again, if necessary.

If you watch the Masters Cup coverage from the Central Coast Disc Golf YouTube channel you can see Philo driving most holes with DX Rocs