30 second clock

[Menacewarf]

I'd say that's arguable.

Besides that though I don't need a funeral. One quiet conversation is fine but when you get a backup and 15 friends all goofing around laughing it's a little different.

801.03 - 3 does say the playing area is clear and free of distractions. In my book (if I was TD) I would consider a bunch of noise on the tee box a distraction.

 

[Thumber]

I'd say that's arguable.

Besides that though I don't need a funeral. One quiet conversation is fine but when you get a backup and 15 friends all goofing around laughing it's a little different.

801.03 - 3 does say the playing area is clear and free of distractions. In my book (if I was TD) I would consider a bunch of noise on the tee box a distraction.

Players are required to be quiet and not cause distractions when someone is throwing. If they are doing so give them a warning and penalize those who won't shut it.

 

[coupe]

Players are required to be quiet and not cause distractions when someone is throwing. If they are doing so give them a warning and penalize those who won't shut it.

This.

801.04 Courtesy

C. Players should take care not to produce any auditory or visual distractions while other players are throwing. Distracting actions include: shouting, cursing, freestyling, striking course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a courtesy violation.

 

[Dave242]

I'd say that's arguable.

Besides that though I don't need a funeral. One quiet conversation is fine but when you get a backup and 15 friends all goofing around laughing it's a little different.

801.03 - 3 does say the playing area is clear and free of distractions. In my book (if I was TD) I would consider a bunch of noise on the tee box a distraction.

This is the rule in its entirety from the latest rules:
804.01 Excessive Time
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) The previous player has thrown; and,
(2) The player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc; and,
(3) The playing area is clear and free of distractions.
B. A player shall receive a warning for the first excessive time violation. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent excessive time violation in the same round.

The rule has been changed slightly from how previously stated (2011 rulebook):
801.03 Excessive Time:
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,
(3) the playing area is clear and free of distractions.
B. A player shall receive a warning for the first excessive time violation if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent excessive time violation in the same round if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.

The "and mark the lie" clause has been taken out so that a player cannot stand over the disc and hold the mini for an indefinite amount of time, but......there is still a lot of legalese wiggle room:

"Arrive at the the disc" has no definition.....just like if you are visiting me, when do you "arrive at my home"? When you drive past my house and circle around the block, when you park, when you knock on the door, when you step through the door? All of those could be the definition, but none of them are the definitive definition.

"Clear and free of distractions" is also pretty subjective (as is "playing area"). Car horns in the distance, tree branches moving in the wind, noises from other groups, voices in my head, etc.....???

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

30 seconds is more than enough time. I hate it when people try to wait out the wind.

DEAL WITH IT.

 

[bradharris]

This is the rule in its entirety from the latest rules:
804.01 Excessive Time
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) The previous player has thrown; and,
(2) The player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc; and,
(3) The playing area is clear and free of distractions.
B. A player shall receive a warning for the first excessive time violation. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent excessive time violation in the same round.

The rule has been changed slightly from how previously stated (2011 rulebook):
801.03 Excessive Time:
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,
(3) the playing area is clear and free of distractions.
B. A player shall receive a warning for the first excessive time violation if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent excessive time violation in the same round if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.

The "and mark the lie" clause has been taken out so that a player cannot stand over the disc and hold the mini for an indefinite amount of time, but......there is still a lot of legalese wiggle room:

"Arrive at the the disc" has no definition.....just like if you are visiting me, when do you "arrive at my home"? When you drive past my house and circle around the block, when you park, when you knock on the door, when you step through the door? All of those could be the definition, but none of them are the definitive definition.

"Clear and free of distractions" is also pretty subjective (as is "playing area"). Car horns in the distance, tree branches moving in the wind, noises from other groups, voices in my head, etc.....???

The rule kind of covers that "legalese wiggle room" with the statement "has taken reasonable time." It doesn't say the clock starts when you arrive, it's saying once you've taken enough time to get there. Of course, there's still no real definition of how much time is reasonable. But if you're stopping in the middle of the fairway to try to buy extra time, the clock can be started without you arriving at your disc.

 

[Menacewarf]

I knew not looking around for the new rulebook would not benefit me. Doesn't change my point. It's not the worst for the rule to be a bit subjective because their is a question of, intent to delay (or habitual delay) vs. circumstances (or occasional delay).

 

[Dave242]

The rule kind of covers that "legalese wiggle room" with the statement "has taken reasonable time." It doesn't say the clock starts when you arrive, it's saying once you've taken enough time to get there. Of course, there's still no real definition of how much time is reasonable. But if you're stopping in the middle of the fairway to try to buy extra time, the clock can be started without you arriving at your disc.

I personally am not a slow player and voted that 30 seconds is too long. 10-15 seconds should be plenty of time from when you "address your lie" (put your foot/supporting point on the lie and ready your throwing stance).

What takes me much more than 30 seconds often is when I am off the fairway in the woods/crap (often). I often need to scope out the different airways that seem like possibilities for escape routes. I often need to walk up to 100' away to see if there are hidden limbs or trees that cannot be seen from the lie.

If 30 seconds starts from the moment I walk to my disc and get within say 10' of it, then I cannot do this necessary investigation.

How do you circumvent your interpretation in this scenario? What is "reasonable" for me in the scenario I mention might not be so for you.

 

[pnasalberta]

Can't tell if serious...

I'm always serious. I played league doubles and i asked some one and they said i was right so maybe i am mainly looking for verification.

Anyway I played worlds and there was this one kid who literally took from 28-35 seconds on every single shot it was the most annoying thing i have ever seen. My dad caddied for me and when i showed him this forum he said that if it was extended this kid would take all and more of the time limit and i cant begin to imagine watching a kid line up a 30ft putt for 1 minute just to see him brick it.

 

[bradharris]

I personally am not a slow player and voted that 30 seconds is too long. 10-15 seconds should be plenty of time from when you "address your lie" (put your foot/supporting point on the lie and ready your throwing stance).

What takes me much more than 30 seconds often is when I am off the fairway in the woods/crap (often). I often need to scope out the different airways that seem like possibilities for escape routes. I often need to walk up to 100' away to see if there are hidden limbs or trees that cannot be seen from the lie.

If 30 seconds starts from the moment I walk to my disc and get within say 10' of it, then I cannot do this necessary investigation.

How do you circumvent your interpretation in this scenario? What is "reasonable" for me in the scenario I mention might not be so for you.

Like I said, it's still not a very clear definition.

Personally, I think it's more unreasonable to force a player to throw a blind shot without giving them the opportunity to walk up the fairway to see what they're dealing with first. To me it's reasonable to start the 30 second clock after returning.

But the rules don't seem to give an allowance for that. If you've taken enough time to get to your lie, the clock is supposed to start. I've never met anyone that would actually call it that strictly though.

 

[bradharris]

I'm always serious. I played league doubles and i asked some one and they said i was right so maybe i am mainly looking for verification.

Anyway I played worlds and there was this one kid who literally took from 28-35 seconds on every single shot it was the most annoying thing i have ever seen. My dad caddied for me and when i showed him this forum he said that if it was extended this kid would take all and more of the time limit and i cant begin to imagine watching a kid line up a 30ft putt for 1 minute just to see him brick it.

Going back to your original question, no, the clock never resets because you need to change discs. The only time it would reset is if there was a distraction in the area that makes you take pause. Wind is not a distraction.

30 seconds is plenty of time to select a disc, change your mind and grab a different disc, change your mind once more and then throw.

 

[sneakytiki]

I'd say the poll results are pretty telling. Mostly "just right" with the too shorts and too longs canceling each other out. What more is there to say on the matter?

 

[Sir Puttsalot]

After the first verbal warning, 30 second violations should be announced with air horns.

 

[DavidSauls]

The 30-second rule is one of the most violated and uncalled rules in our sport. Yet it mostly works, as a prod to most throwers to play without undue delay, and a remedy for the other players if the throwers don't.

Even most slow players, if they don't get a shot off in 30 seconds, they come reasonably close. The fear is that, if given a minute or two, they'd only come reasonably close to that, as well.

I don't believe I've ever seen it called, though I've seen it threatened when players were trying to wait out the wind. And a lot of leniency is given when people have really tricky lies, either for footing or for finding a route out of thick woods, especially for players who aren't otherwise slow.

 

[Future_Primitive]

After the first verbal warning, 30 second violations should be announced with air horns.

Or maybe they could be forced to wear something that might aid them moving forward so they have a better idea of the importance of time.

:hfive:

 

[Thumber]

The 30-second rule is one of the most violated and uncalled rules in our sport. Yet it mostly works, as a prod to most throwers to play without undue delay, and a remedy for the other players if the throwers don't.

Even most slow players, if they don't get a shot off in 30 seconds, they come reasonably close. The fear is that, if given a minute or two, they'd only come reasonably close to that, as well.

I don't believe I've ever seen it called, though I've seen it threatened when players were trying to wait out the wind. And a lot of leniency is given when people have really tricky lies, either for footing or for finding a route out of thick woods, especially for players who aren't otherwise slow.

Well said. I particularly agree on the tricky lies in the shule part. I am always lenient in that case. I get annoyed by 100 pumper putters and people who don't start thinking about their shot until they address their lie.

 

[DavidSauls]

Well said. I particularly agree on the tricky lies in the shule part. I am always lenient in that case. I get annoyed by 100 pumper putters and people who don't start thinking about their shot until they address their lie.

.....and the people who must finish telling their 3-minute amusing anecdote before teeing off.

 

[bradharris]

.....and the people who must finish telling their 3-minute amusing anecdote before teeing off.

Timing is everything in comedy. It's probably not as funny when you have to pause the story to tee off...

 

[Dan Ensor]

I'd say the poll results are pretty telling. Mostly "just right" with the too shorts and too longs canceling each other out. What more is there to say on the matter?

From the conversation, though, what it seems is that 30 seconds is not enough time (unless you have a straightforward lie). We are relying on the good will of men, or some hippy crap like that, to only call when the thrower is abusing it (not when it gains them a stroke to call). It seems pretty naive to me.

 

[Dan Ensor]

.....and the people who must finish telling their 3-minute amusing anecdote before teeing off.

If anyone is on my card, feel free to finish the story. I'm playing golf, not running track; I can afford 3 minutes.