And the PDGA strikes again!

[Harrishabitat]

I think he is impressed with your command of the English language. Even more so, since your location is Switzerland, where English may not be your native tongue.

Yeah...I was thinking that too :clap:

 

[krupicka]

Um...I understand the english language very well thank you very much, one of us is a professional writer and I am sure that is me (if you are as well then I retract my statement)

The rule clearly states: "come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"

You do understand the difference between "AND" and "OR" right?

The parenthetical describes the inner cylinder. It does not mean that the disc must be supported by both the bottom and inside of the wall of the tray.

 

[Harrishabitat]

This is Dumb you know what the rule is if not before certainly now. I understand this is a Forum where you can rant and or rave but come on now. ITs a rule and its simple if you dont see it go through it counts... Im just not sure how people dont know and understand rules. Im not stickler by any means (Im not a D*ck about them) but shouldnt you at least know the rules of your favorite sport/activity? NOW back to my Goldfish and paperwork.

With all due respect I play a lot of tournaments big and small and MOST people in the events (especially the am's) don't know most of the rules...So in that situation you are wrong.

Secondly my issue isn't about knowing the rule, it's about how it is implemented. The PDGA posts the picture with all of the discs in the basket and then says these are in and these are out...and then it comes to the weggie disc and says this one is out, except if no one sees it then we give the benefit of the doubt to the player... That last part is where I have my problem.

Almost every event I have played there are many times where someone in my group doesn't play by the rules and states "come on we are just doing this for fun" or I happen to be leading and then all of a sudden my out of bounds locations seem to be less and less in my favor. This is the problem in competitive sports when you leave things up to judgement calls and players favor and the people they are competing against.

Lastly I do have a problem with the wording.
"come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"
If you want to read the rule exactly as it is written it does say both the bottom and the inside wall, so any disc just sitting on the bottom would not be considered holed out...if you read the rule as it is written. I would never suggest that to be the case, but that is how it is written

 

[ru4por]

I get the frustration Harris. I think, the rule, as with many rules, attempts to cover all situations. This is not possible, with the nearly endless possibilities and variables in most sports. I believe the rules should be used in the spirit they are intended. We all have played with a rules nazi, and the problem is they are often interpreting the rules, or situation, incorrectly. There will never be black and white rules....be a good sport and follow the guideline of seeking self acutualization, man. When grey areas appear (remember they will), error in favor of the player. The same consideration will be given to you, and all is fair again. Isn't that what rule were about to start with, fairness?

 

[Horsman]

Sounds like you need to move up a division so that you do not have to play with as many idiots.

And how is the rule not clear. If a disc is wedged from the inside out, it counts. If the disc is wedged in the basket on a blind shot and no one saw it then the player is given the benefit of the doubt and it is counted.

And if you really have to read the fne print on how to hole out, chances are your looking for an excuse as to why you played poorly or as to why someone beat you.

With all due respect I play a lot of tournaments big and small and MOST people in the events (especially the am's) don't know most of the rules...So in that situation you are wrong.

Secondly my issue isn't about knowing the rule, it's about how it is implemented. The PDGA posts the picture with all of the discs in the basket and then says these are in and these are out...and then it comes to the weggie disc and says this one is out, except if no one sees it then we give the benefit of the doubt to the player... That last part is where I have my problem.

Almost every event I have played there are many times where someone in my group doesn't play by the rules and states "come on we are just doing this for fun" or I happen to be leading and then all of a sudden my out of bounds locations seem to be less and less in my favor. This is the problem in competitive sports when you leave things up to judgement calls and players favor and the people they are competing against.

Lastly I do have a problem with the wording.
"come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"
If you want to read the rule exactly as it is written it does say both the bottom and the inside wall, so any disc just sitting on the bottom would not be considered holed out...if you read the rule as it is written. I would never suggest that to be the case, but that is how it is written

 

[Future_Primitive]

Lastly I do have a problem with the wording.
"come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"
If you want to read the rule exactly as it is written it does say both the bottom and the inside wall, so any disc just sitting on the bottom would not be considered holed out...if you read the rule as it is written. I would never suggest that to be the case, but that is how it is written

Incorrect. :thmbdown:

The parenthetical describes the inner cylinder. It does not mean that the disc must be supported by both the bottom and inside of the wall of the tray.

Correct. :thmbup:

 

[Smigles]

Secondly my issue isn't about knowing the rule, it's about how it is implemented. The PDGA posts the picture with all of the discs in the basket and then says these are in and these are out...and then it comes to the weggie disc and says this one is out, except if no one sees it then we give the benefit of the doubt to the player... That last part is where I have my problem.

I think that it is almost impossible for a disc to hit the chains and then still wedge on the way back out of the basket. Therefore I would never count wedges that nobody saw. But that is our problem... We could try to get it changed, but I really dont care enugh.

But the point remains : you actually know the rule, you are just making an argument about semantics.

Almost every event I have played there are many times where someone in my group doesn't play by the rules and states "come on we are just doing this for fun" or I happen to be leading and then all of a sudden my out of bounds locations seem to be less and less in my favor. This is the problem in competitive sports when you leave things up to judgement calls and players favor and the people they are competing against.

That is not a rule problem, it's a people problem. Good luck fixing people

Lastly I do have a problem with the wording.
"come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"
If you want to read the rule exactly as it is written it does say both the bottom and the inside wall, so any disc just sitting on the bottom would not be considered holed out...if you read the rule as it is written. I would never suggest that to be the case, but that is how it is written

See what Krupica wrote on this one.

All in all I still dont see any reason to go "pdga strikes again" in a sarcastic tone.

I prefer this one :

 

[Horsman]

I think that it is almost impossible for a disc to hit the chains and then still wedge on the way back out of the basket. Therefore I would never count wedges that nobody saw. But that is our problem... We could try to get it changed, but I really dont care enugh.

I have actually seen it happen before. On a shot that spiked, hit chains, went through the chains and stuck in the basket on the other side.

 

[Smigles]

I have actually seen it happen before. On a shot that spiked, hit chains, went through the chains and stuck in the basket on the other side.

Ok ok just cause I have never seen it does not mean it's impossible.

Can't you tell which way a disc wedged in ? Isn't the bigger part of the disc in the direction it came from ?

 

[Tpro]

With all due respect I play a lot of tournaments big and small and MOST people in the events (especially the am's) don't know most of the rules...So in that situation you are wrong.

Secondly my issue isn't about knowing the rule, it's about how it is implemented. The PDGA posts the picture with all of the discs in the basket and then says these are in and these are out...and then it comes to the weggie disc and says this one is out, except if no one sees it then we give the benefit of the doubt to the player... That last part is where I have my problem.

Almost every event I have played there are many times where someone in my group doesn't play by the rules and states "come on we are just doing this for fun" or I happen to be leading and then all of a sudden my out of bounds locations seem to be less and less in my favor. This is the problem in competitive sports when you leave things up to judgement calls and players favor and the people they are competing against.

Lastly I do have a problem with the wording.
"come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom AND inside wall) of the tray"
If you want to read the rule exactly as it is written it does say both the bottom and the inside wall, so any disc just sitting on the bottom would not be considered holed out...if you read the rule as it is written. I would never suggest that to be the case, but that is how it is written

I wasnt necessarily pointing a finger at you. I agree Most people dont understand or even care to know the rules.. Most people paying for $$ do but even then I hear stupid ish all the time. I understand that the rule may not be worded correctly but you understand it.. See what I mean? If people dont know all of the rules but understand this one (while worded the way it is) why worry about it? Also if your playing with a bunch of tools that say you went out way further away than what you did. Thats just plain unfortunate. I do play events for fun and I DO play to win. That doesnt at all mean I would ever Sh*t on someone (give them a crappy O.B. call when one isnt warranted). Karma

 

[Horsman]

Ok ok just cause I have never seen it does not mean it's impossible.

Can't you tell which way a disc wedged in ? Isn't the bigger part of the disc in the direction it came from ?

Yea, thats the part of the rules that are kinda fuzzy. Where it says if its wedged and it was on a blind shot that no one say then it counts. But what if its in the front of the basket. I personally wouldnt count it because you can clearly tell it wedged from the outside but others might take the rule litterally and count it. And its not alwyas about how much came through the basket because that is a very inexact science with no difinitive answer.

 

[Tpro]

I have actually seen it happen before. On a shot that spiked, hit chains, went through the chains and stuck in the basket on the other side.

H*ll I threw a Overhand approach through the TOP of the Chastity belt one time. Luckly enough it was a long time ago (5+ years maybe) and during a casual round. I counted that Jazz!

 

[elnino]

a few more basket supports would make this impossible or at least super rare. so improve the basket don't punish a player hitting an ace pot. Take away an ace during a round would end my day.

 

[Smigles]

Yea, thats the part of the rules that are kinda fuzzy. Where it says if its wedged and it was on a blind shot that no one say then it counts. But what if its in the front of the basket. I personally wouldnt count it because you can clearly tell it wedged from the outside but others might take the rule litterally and count it. And its not alwyas about how much came through the basket because that is a very inexact science with no difinitive answer.

Sorry, but the only thing fuzzy about your example is the part where you say "I personally would not count it". You know what the rules are though. I hope everybody takes the rule literally, that's what they are there fore.

 

[Horsman]

a few more basket supports would make this impossible or at least super rare. so improve the basket don't punish a player hitting an ace pot. Take away an ace during a round would end my day.

Yea Ive never understood why innova doesnt just do a double chastity belt on their baskets. It would get rid of all the nubs (+1) and would elminate wedges completely(+1). Plus we would get to hear the sound of the chastity belt even more.

 

[Horsman]

Sorry, but the only thing fuzzy about your example is the part where you say "I personally would not count it". You know what the rules are though. I hope everybody takes the rule literally, that's what they are there fore.

If the disc is just barely sticking in the front of the basket, its pretty easy to tell that it is not a wedge from the inside out. If this happened to me on a blind shot. I would not count it since you can easily tell that it did not wedge from the inside out. If you want to stroke me for playing it like that then go ahead.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Yea Ive never understood why innova doesnt just do a double chastity belt on their baskets. It would get rid of all the nubs (+1) and would elminate wedges completely(+1). Plus we would get to hear the sound of the chastity belt even more.

That would not be good

 

[brian j]

Plus we would get to hear the sound of the chastity belt even more.

please no, i hear it enough.

 

[pmatt1969]

It would cost a little more to make the basket. Cuts into profit margin. Play the way the rule is written. Period

 

[Kodachrome]

I do like the idea of changing the basket tray. Probably the most sensible idea, yet the hardest to implement due to cost unfortunately. You would have to keep the rule in there because there would still be many courses with "outdated" baskets. Then you get the worst of both worlds.