Finally figured "it" out...

[PerpetualNewbie]

In my long and illustrious 10-month career playing this game (/sarcasm) I have had a lot of ups and downs.

Several times while playing rounds or doing field work, my form would fall into place and I was instantly hitting an effortless 425'. This might last a couple hours or even span across a few days, but I would eventually lose "it" and would be back to the maddeningly frustrating "strong-arming" again.

Each time I found "it" I would do my best to analyze and write down what I thought was making the difference and work on that. At one time I thought it was adding a pronounced "hop" to my x-step, most recently it was "keeping my weight back". I think I even posted another thread on here about a previous apparent breakthrough I'd had in my form. I knew there was a key timing element somewhere that was making this difference, but every time I thought I had it figured out it disappeared again and no amount of intentional coaxing could bring it back, but it would randomly reappear to my continued befuddlement.

This happened as recently as this past week even... I was throwing really well during all my recreational rounds last week, really enjoying the flight of some new molds I had picked up, and then played in my first two tournaments of 2014 this weekend and just lost "it" until the last few holes of the last round in tournament #2.

The first round of the first tournament I ended with my all-time worst score ever (72) and I thought there was no way I could ever top that...until the first round of the second tournament, where I shot 8 strokes worse than that (80, but it was a huge course with lots of OB - best 2-round score for Open division was 115). I was seriously thinking about going back to Rec division for a while this year.

The last few holes of the last round this weekend I found "it" however, and am now confident that I have figured out the key timing element to my drive: not turning my hips back too soon. The way I've articulated this to myself is "resist turning the lower body during the run-up/x-step until you absolutely have to"... boom, instant consistent distance and accuracy, on demand. From where I usually "tee off" to practice field-work at home to the back fence of my property is 430', and I just threw a Westside Sorcerer over that fence. I now "feel" my form and that consistent pull from my core that is generating the power, and better yet I can make myself do it instead of just accidentally stumbling into it occasionally.

In retrospect I can now see how I mis-interpreted a lot of what I was feeling/experiencing, but I'm confident that I've found the last major piece of the puzzle to of backhand driving form that had been eluding me.

My goal is to now put up some slo-mo recordings of my drive and hopefully get some further feedback on what I can clean up in order to reach my goal of 450' this summer.

Sorry for the long anecdotal post, but hopefully this might help provide a clue to someone else who has been struggling with this as I have.

 

[el siege]

great post - I like the detail.

the X-step is a way to coil your body so that it can elastically uncoil and thus transfer that energy into flight.

if you try and twist something without holding one end static, it will not coil. By keeping your hips static for a bit longer, you are allowing that build in tension (or coiling) to happen.

Seem right?

 

[5QU166Y]

I would suggest taking some video of yourself. If you video yourself and you don't have "it", that's fine. You can compare that video to some of the pros' form, and try to find ways to improve. If you find "it", I would again suggest taking some video so that you can remember what "it" looks like.

I would also suggest taking some time to read the threads over at DGR. The forums here are great, but the information over there is much more detailed and informative.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Guys, this is absoultely insane...

The BEST I had ever scored on my home course was -4, I usually throw between +2 and -2... I just came back from a (very) quick round and threw -9! I had 10 birdies and one bogie (tree branch knocked me out of bounds on my drive), and the other 8 shots were all missed putts, most from 20'+ out. I threw a distance driver (Sorcerer) on only one hole. I was parking or over-throwing baskets with fairway/control drivers (Escape, Saint Pro, Hatchet) that I wasn't reaching with distance drivers last week. There are a couple locations on this course where the teepads for different holes are relatively close to each other, and after one of my drives with an Escape that parked a basket within 8' I heard a guy on the other tee ask his buddy "Did you just see that guy park his drive!?"...

To think that if I can get my distance dialed in a bit and putt a little better I could potentially score a 36 on this course just blows my mind. It's not just the distance, but the huge and immediate improvement in accuracy as well that I'm excited about.

I really hope this doesn't come across as bragging because that's not who I am...remember, I'm the guy that threw a 72 and an 80 in tournament play yesterday! I'm just posting this info in the hope that it might help others either directly or through inspiration.

I'm definitely going to be recording myself on video in the next day or so, but it was a bit of a struggle playing the round I just did, I am a bit stiff and have some blisters on my feet from the long weekend (I'm 43, after all...) and don't think I'll throw another disc today, no matter how excited I am! I bought a GoPro last week though so I should be able to take some pretty good 120fps video.

I have read a lot of the info on DGR but the problem I often have with that info and a lot of what is posted here by the experts (hello Sidewinder!) is trying to translate it into body mechanics... "Do this, don't do that." - ok, how!? I've never been an athlete really, so trying to figure out how to communicate with my body is not a natural act for me

What's weird is that I can watch videos of open players now and /feel/ their drives when I watch them...

Keep throwin' guys (sorry - and gals)!

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

...this weekend I found "it" however, and am now confident that I have figured out the key timing element to my drive: not turning my hips back too soon. The way I've articulated this to myself is "resist turning the lower body during the run-up/x-step until you absolutely have to"...

Ok, so after that full round playing this way, I think a better description is "to not turn my UPPER body back too soon and not turn my lower body as much as I was"...

I now realize that it was really my upper body that I am now delaying the turning of, which helped properly time the apex of my reachback with my front foot bracing and the occurrence of "the move" that Sidewinder is always talking about. This is maybe a .5-1 second difference from what I was doing before, but the result is huge with regards to power and balance. I am also now no longer falling off the teepad or falling forward after release, which will be a big plus during melting snow and spring rains because the end of most teepads around here are mud pits

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Nice work PerpNewb - there's no question in my mind that in my first year (9 months) I've had huge swings in my learning curve, steps backwards, leaps forward - in ALL aspects of my game. My distance drives have bounced around as I've learned about various discs - hyzer-flipping under-stable plastic, throwing drives with anyhzer, throwing stable discs. Each round seems to unlock a little secret.

I've played a few rounds lately with some really amazing players, and it opened my eyes even more to what is possible. Playing with the best players you can find is a huge benefit. And I know it turns some people off - the idea of guy in his first year who is super motivated and wants to play with the top guys in your area. But the reality is that you up your game when your around people playing at that level and if you're playing with guys who are more into the social, drinking, smoking aspect of it - it's going to be a different thing.

The break-through's feel amazing and nobody in dgcr is going to take it as bragging... especially when we're still 125' off what the big arms can throw on demand!

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

The thing that turned the corner for me (not all the way there yet, by any means) was Sidewinder on here saying heel up on the pivot foot. When I think about that and do it right that sets the spring in motion and the whole thing unfolds from there. I also liked Shusterick's advice to keep that knee bent as long as possible. Gonna go try it out in ten minutes.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Playing with the best players you can find is a huge benefit. And I know it turns some people off - the idea of guy in his first year who is super motivated and wants to play with the top guys in your area. But the reality is that you up your game when your around people playing at that level and if you're playing with guys who are more into the social, drinking, smoking aspect of it - it's going to be a different thing.

The problem I have is that some of the best players around here play in either large groups (10-12+) or even when playing in smaller groups are glacially slow in their play. I can accept that for tournaments, and I understand the argument "practice like you play, play like you practice" but do you really need to take 4-6 practice swings on every tee, or bring 4 discs up to the tee with you and "try" each one while you feel what the wind is doing, until you settle on just the right disc? I played my -9 solo round in a little less than 45 minutes today, and I had to wait a couple times for groups to let me play through because it was 77 degrees and the first time it's been that warm since last summer. I have read both "Golf Is Not A Game of Perfect" and "Zen Golf" and understand the importance and need for a pre-shot routine, I guess I just have a shorter routine than most, lol.

I also approached a couple of the better local guys and offered to pay for lessons... $25 per session and I would commit to 8 sessions with them minimum, more if it worked out. One guy took me up on it for a couple sessions and then either lost interest or (seemed) uncomfortable being paid.

I still maintain that for guys who are good at this and can be effective teachers (like Dave Feldberg) there is money to be made off guys like me who see the benefits and don't mind paying for it. In almost every profession or hobby I've been involved with I've paid for lessons or workshops and they've always been invaluable.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hi, sounds like you are starting to get it now. There's a reason it's called "the move", 99% of the vids I see in the critique don't get it. They turn backward too early and don't properly load the core against the rear leg and everything from there is screwed. When you start to get "the move" it adds a whole new dimension of accuracy and efficiency from the improved core torque and rhythm. The door frame and hershyzer drills are to help with the move. Perfecting it is a matter of practice.

 

[BirdieMachine]

Basically you are talking about keeping the hips closed till your right foot hits and start to uncoil from the ground up pivoting on the heel?

This is one thing I've been working on over the winter, I'm a former toe pivoter strong armer too with crap for power. I decided enough is enough and took all winter off to practice form drills. We'll see if I can break 400 or more this year.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Almost done w/ Zen Golf which is a great read and an easy read.

I feel ya on the finding good guys to play with. I'm lucky in that my brother is really solid - and I play w/ my buddy Kyle (who is a dgcr poster) who is equally obsessive.

I think there's probably a difficulty in BEING a coach, which is miles away from being a solid player. Teaching somebody to fix mechanics, have worthwhile drills, etc - is also probably not very fun if you have limited time to play.

And then you throw in the reality that DG has a stigma about it not being cool to put effort into improving. When people hear that I throw field work 5 days a week on top of playing rounds, they think I'm absolutely insane. Honestly I don't care - I can laugh about it too, but then again I'm playing at a pretty solid level for somebody in the first year.

If your reality is that you're it in terms of finding a support network, then hopefully you can find some like minded players along the way that want to improve and support each other. Until, then - dgcr is here for ya!

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

The thing that turned the corner for me (not all the way there yet, by any means) was Sidewinder on here saying heel up on the pivot foot.

Just so I'm clear, he was talking about during your x-step when he said this, and not the actual plant and drive/release, right?

I believe general consensus is that your plant foot should be flat on the ground and you pivot on your heel in order to generate power and reduce knee stress up through the actual release... if that's what you're saying then we're on the same page.

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

Hmmm... now you've got me rethinking it. Here's what he said:

Well your shoulder turn in the backswing isn't that terrible, you aren't turning your hips back though. The second video you actually land on your front heel, so your hips are already open. You need to turn the hips back and land toes and roll to the heel which transfers your weight forward from behind you, so you can stop/brace/clear the front hip from continuing forward and leverage the shoulders/arm from it.

I took that to mean the I was landing directly on the heel of my last (pivot) foot. If I walk through it slowly, doing that opens the hips. If I concentrate on putting the toe down first, that keeps the hips closed and as the heel comes down with the weight transfer the hips open up. That little delay made a big difference to me. Or at least it seemed too.

 

[A rod]

This was the biggest part of transitioning standstill power to x step power. Lead with the plant heel keeps the hips closed. But the ball of the foot/big toe touches ground first.

I figured I'd post my findings because like you, finding it was easy with good focus and attention, but I would always lose it in a few hours to a week. I feel like I have simplified the process in my head enough not to lose it again. That was inspired by your thread, so thanks!

 

[Rob Martin]

Basically you are talking about keeping the hips closed till your right foot hits and start to uncoil from the ground up pivoting on the heel?

For a RHBH player, can you explain this more? Hips closed part. X-step or running x-step

 

[BirdieMachine]

For a RHBH player, can you explain this more? Hips closed part. X-step or running x-step

This is the last step (RHBH = right leg). You want the hips and shoulder facing away from the target, you initially land on the right toes and roll to the heel and then rotate on the heel. You rotate from the ground up creating a whip action or kinetic chain. Power from the foot transfers into the hip, then shoulders, then arm and finally wrist.

So you want to focus on sequencing that correctly. If you start with any part to early you cut off the power from the previous body action. This way you can create the maximum power into the throw.

So simply you are not moving any body part actively until you get a transfer from the lower part.

"Strong arming" comes from not having the sequence correct. Most of the power in that throw comes from the arm going to soon and out of sequence. I know I do this and thus have been working on getting the correct motion, just doing a single step throwing action indoors and focusing on that sequence. I've been doing this all winter so hopefully my body can learn this new movement and make it natural.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

This is the last step (RHBH = right leg). You want the hips and shoulder facing away from the target, you initially land on the right toes and roll to the heel and then rotate on the heel. You rotate from the ground up creating a whip action or kinetic chain. Power from the foot transfers into the hip, then shoulders, then arm and finally wrist.

So you want to focus on sequencing that correctly. If you start with any part to early you cut off the power from the previous body action. This way you can create the maximum power into the throw.

So simply you are not moving any body part actively until you get a transfer from the lower part.

I've heard this described many times and watched tons of youtube footage for the last year, but unfortunately I was in a chicken-and-egg scenario - I didn't understand it until I felt it, and I couldn't figure out the timing/sequence to make myself feel it.

Luckily this time I was able to analyze things enough to figure out what the key was, and I am now able to have correct timing "at will", but I don't think I could try and teach it to someone else at this point.

Not every throw is magically perfect, I have other issues to work out and tighten up with my form, but the difference this has instantly made in my game is beyond huge.

I just got back from a course that I hadn't ever thought I would shoot below par on. Most of the pins were set in their long positions with several par 5's and several more par 4's. I threw -3 for the round, and it would have been -7 if I hadn't missed a few putts. Ridiculous!

Excited for tomorrow's tournament!

 

[BirdieMachine]

I've heard this described many times and watched tons of youtube footage for the last year, but unfortunately I was in a chicken-and-egg scenario - I didn't understand it until I felt it, and I couldn't figure out the timing/sequence to make myself feel it.

Luckily this time I was able to analyze things enough to figure out what the key was, and I am now able to have correct timing "at will", but I don't think I could try and teach it to someone else at this point.

Not every throw is magically perfect, I have other issues to work out and tighten up with my form, but the difference this has instantly made in my game is beyond huge.

I just got back from a course that I hadn't ever thought I would shoot below par on. Most of the pins were set in their long positions with several par 5's and several more par 4's. I threw -3 for the round, and it would have been -7 if I hadn't missed a few putts. Ridiculous!

Excited for tomorrow's tournament!

Awesome dude and you've only been playing a year! :hfive:

 

[notroman]

Only word of advice I can offer after reading through all this is to keep up with practice and don't get discouraged when you suddenly lose distance. When I first started throwing far it felt great and effortless, but then went away. I scrambled to break apart my throw to find what I was doing different which was frustrating but then it came back again. Great. Then it went away. Then came back. Eventually it was more consistent and after about a year or so it finally stabilized out. This happened with almost everyone I know that "got it". Sounds like you may be going through the same phase.

The point is until you drill all this into muscle memory, it will come and go. You got over the hardest part - learning how to actually throw the throw. The only challenge in front of you now is to not let your confidence take a blow when the throw magically goes away as quickly as it appeared. That's normal. Don't try to force anything since the timing is so crucial it's almost impossible to make things happen "on purpose". You can't will it, you just have to relax and let your body do its thing. To get it the throw to be more consistent is all about repetition. If you lose it, then break it down to the very basics and build it up again. Sometimes it's easier to just take a break for a few days instead of getting frustrated.

Glad you picked it up so fast! Keep it up!

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Awesome dude and you've only been playing a year! :hfive:

Yeah, but honestly, as much as I practice and play, I've probably packed like three years of playing time for a "normal" person in the 10 months I've been throwing...not really a fair apples-to-apples comparison. My goal is to be playing open by the middle of next season.